What purpose is there to do the dungeon then? To play the lottery? As I said, if you put in the effort, you should get the items.
In most games, dungeon drops cannot be traded (or are for a limited time with party members in that dungeon only). This allows for higher drop rates for items so that those who can do the dungeons get the rewards they put the time in to get.
Considering the limited dungeon runs and the fact that players outlevel dungeons too quickly if they’re playing the rest of the game after they finish their dungeon runs, this would be a better option.
Except the EXP is not useful after the first few levels, and people keep coming back to the Level 90 dungeon for the item they aren’t getting. EXP is part of what brings someone to do the dungeon at the level the dungeon is, but its not what keep people stuck doing that dungeon.
They want the item, they aren’t getting the item, they keep coming back to try and get that item. They aren’t coming back for EXP.
People literally give up the EXP from doing higher level dungeons just for a chance at an item they should’ve been able to get in only a few dungeon runs. Clearly the EXP is not a big factor.
[quote=“darkwolf7786, post:23, topic:187796”]
they should’ve been able to get in only a few dungeon runs.
[/quote]that is a fallacy.
While the item in question does make things easier a bit, but it isnt mandatory and there are alternatives in form of enchanted headgear and other equipment. Players’ obsession over it is unjustified imo.
Enchanted Headgear is a pay to win device currently. You PAY for Enchant Scrolls to get stats on headgears. Getting them at a near to nothing chance does not make them NOT a pay to win device. Otherwise, enjoy paying high end for something with even an average enchant.
Again, you say “other equipment” but WHAT other equipment replaces something like an Arde Dagger in this game? Mana-Mana is Archer only. Nothing else does what Arde Dagger does for Wizards for example, especially at level 75, and even more so later since there’s nothing that can replace it
I don’t think you understand what you’re saying.
And YES it is the GAME’S problem if there are no item alternative. To many, an Arde Dagger IS BEST IN SLOT and NOTHING REPLACES IT.
Venom dagger, Otrava and Ledas shields (if you are looking for some elemental damage in off-hand). For mages there is an alternative of using 2-h staves (with AoE attack ratio bonus) that have way higher base magic attack stat plus they can have nice additional bonuses as well.
Of those items you listed, only ONE is an offhand.
Venom is also 100 Levels higher and more suited to Rogues for its set bonus. The 25 bonus damage isn’t much. Having an Arde Dagger will help leveling for sure as well, which builds to its worth more than Venom.
Very few will be bothered to change for it, unless they want to spend the extra few millions when they’re maxed out for one.
You can’t pretend that itemization is not a problem in this game in its current state.
And what exactly is the problem with only one being an offhand? Venom is a higher level, and also offers more elemental and flat damage. Sounds like an upgrade to me. I’m not making a rogue, but my future corsair will certainly enjoy it. It also doesn’t have a set bonus from the looks of things, that poison is built into the weapon. Because of the way damage works, you’ll be losing about 158 damage from offhand hits by stubbornly sticking to arde, before modifiers.
Elements also has a larger bonus, which will be boosted in more situations due to it being spread across 4 elements. Viper has about twice the bonus. Zaima, when sing ice magic has it’s ice element damage modified twice by weakness, and also allows for an offhand. Lolopanther has extremely high base magic damage, AND an elemental bonus.
My search wasn’t exhaustive anyways, there could easily be more, better options for elemental attack that I didn’t link here.
Elemental damage isn’t the end-all stat anyways. I would take +153 magic attack over an arde any day. Hell, with my Cryo I’d take a sage wall over arde.
The only staff that could probably replace the setup is the Lolipanther Staff at level 270 because it has more added damage to overcome the 137 from the Arde Dagger with its 100 more magic damage.
For all over items, refining a Wand to +12 with an Arde Dagger in hand, will offset using a Staff +12 until the Lolipanther Staff
And yes I know I said Lolipanther. That’s what I call it.
The biggest users of Arde Dagger are Mages such as Pyro, Psycho, etc with multihit moves and Priests who get most of their damage out of Added Damage and additional hits in order to level up.
I don’t think Cryo’s have many multihitting moves in the first place. There’s really no reason for them to use it.
When each tick of damage is increased by 150~ for literally any spellcaster that has multihitting moves, the damage is huge.
Viper is still a 2-handed bow. For auto-attacking Crossbow users, they usually have Arde Dagger or Ludas Shield. Anyone else is already using Two-Handed Bows already including Viper doesn’t mean much.
Ice Pike hits 4 times, Ice wall hits ??? times, gust can hit 3 times, snow rolling hits multiple times.
ANYWAYS my argument is that Arde is not BIS for literally everybody at every point in the game. It’s a moderately overrated weapon which has multiple alternatives that fit into a variety of builds and therefore isn’t required farming. DPS is not everything, and I wish people would stop treating it like it was. Developers and players alike.
Back on topic, I still think that the drop rates are fine as they are. As I said before the arde tangent, the “trash” you get from dungeon cubes is still useful, and the powerful equipment has a suitably low drop rate. If you have to work harder than the guy next to you to get it, then tough. RNGesus is powered by salty tears.
You mean Talts? Those things I paid 30k for that sell for 5k?
Also, thanks to RNGesus, its not about “working harder” as some might get it easily in a few runs while those who work hard may not get it in 100 runs, so that arguement is flawed.
Fireball hits up to 15 times and Burning Ground hits once per second. Psychokino’s Mind Crush (well, that’s what I call it, I don’t remember its name haha) hits twice a second for up to 15 or so seconds. These are a big difference to just “it hits 3 times or 4 times”.
IN this game, where the stats are not balance because everything is linear, yes, DPS is what matters a lot since Defenses are not going to block damage that easily, which means even a small increase in damage can increase your killing potential by a lot. The faster you kill a mob, the faster you can kill the next mob. If you aren’t dying to the mobs, then your defenses are fine, otherwise you would build defenses.
What are the alternatives? No equipment gives Attack Speed in the game, nothing besides a few archer items or the Windrunning boots grant Move Speed, SP is managed by Mana Potions since the stat itself is so weak, so what other “important” stats are we to look forward to that’s not damage?
When you say “DPS is not everything”, please tell us what else is important then in terms of equipping WEAPONS whose main purpose is to increase our damage.
I’m gonna jump in here: Yes, there are better items than Arde Dagger. That doesn’t mean this game doesn’t have an itemization problem though.
There are less than 10 items in this game that do what Arde does. Which is, they provide some sort of benefit through the offhand slot to ranged DPS characters.
This is definitely less of an issue for characters that use 2H weapons, but for those of us that don’t (coughclericcough), it’s the only meaningful stat boost we can get with our off hand.
Honestly, I think Arde Dagger should be nerfed. It should give around +50 or +75 dmg per hit. But there should also be significantly more pieces of equipment that DPS characters can equip in their offhands.
For the record, ice wall is easily capable of doing over 20 hits per half-second. Under psychic pressure, each peice of ice wall generates 3 shards of ice that can all hit individually.
Alternatives to elemental attack on weapons? Flat attack, Attack Range (spears), Crit chance, crit damage, mob-type damage, ability levels, various extra bonuses such as venom’s poison proc, scaling bonuses such as 2-h bows +50% damage against flying, built-in CC on blunt weapons for clerics.
If you don’t reroll, then you didn’t pay 30k for one. if you did reroll, you paid 30k knowing there was a good chance you would get one. Talt isn’t “just 5k” either. Talt is needed for guild upgrades, and with the current trade restrictions, people are using it as a currency alternative to silver.
DPS on weapons is important, I was never arguing against that. I was arguing against the fact that DPS is the one and only thing anybody should ever be concerned about. It doesn’t matter if someone has 150% more dps than everyone else in the group if they need to be babysat by the healer, that person is a detriment to the team.
Itemization will be better solved with time, since the game is clearly incomplete as of now. More content, more items, more likely arde-alternatives will appear. As @asphidel said, arde should probably be nerfed.
This topic isn’t directly an arde topic anyways, it’s about whether or not the talt rate is too high, which I do not believe it is.
Which you need to melee attack to do it yourself. Your options are a Staff, which has a rather slow attack speed, or to use a dagger which attacks faster. Which do you think would output more DPS in the long run?
Flat Attack does not affect additional hits, say from Cafrisun, Enchant Fire, and Sacrament for attacks. Additional damage sources such as Arde Dagger, Blessing, etc. do.
Attack Range is not a form of damage. If you mean AOE ratio, many high level areas do not have huge mob spawns that you get to make great use of your high AOE. With so many single mobs spread so far out, you might as well be able to kill each one fast and “AOE” is merely secondary. AOE also doesn’t help you on bosses.
Crit Chance is granted by Dex and is easily offset with Green Gems in weaponry.
Crit Damage is granted by Str and is easily offset by i think Star Gems in weaponry, though with how Strength scales on ranks, its usually better to raise a little more Strength then sacrifice your Crit Damage for Crit Chance.
Mob-type damage is too specific when Arde Dagger works for all enemies which will do more damage on those weak and a bit less on resisted mobs, but still 150+ on everything else.
Weapon swap exists if you want to use Bows in a mainly Flying monster area. Not every enemy flies and many flying monsters have pretty low health anyway. Most tanky mobs are on the ground.
Not sure what weapons you mean for built in “CC”, haven’t seen any.
Most players don’t have a guild. Most players can’t trade to guild leaders. Most players aren’t going to make a Templar to make their own guild. For the most part, Talt is just 5k to the average player. Being a currency alternative doesn’t make it less than 5k each.
The talt rate is incredibly high for the amount of dungeons we’re allowed each. Again, Free players get 4 chances a day. Token players get 9 chances a day. If not talt, there should be other items in the pool that can drop because Talt alone is not useful to the average player.
##UNDER PSYCHIC PRESSURE
Yes, psychic pressure DOES produce shards when it hits ice wall, and also when it hits fire ball! SYNERGY!
You’re not necessarily always going to have these, and wearing cafrisun all the time is probably going to do more harm than good.
Attack range means less downtime between mobs since you’re spending less time running between them. Ratio was not what I meant.
Green gems can only provide +16/20 crit chance each assuming the cap is lv 5. If you drop 36 points of dex just because of green gems you’re also losing 36 points of accuracy and evasion. You’re also losing some crit damage and max damage if you don’t roast. If you offset that with yellow gems you lose some block pen and more accuracy.
CC on weapons, as far as I’m aware, only includes the cleric attribute which has a chance to stun enemies when using blunt. It’s not much, but it’s there.
It could just be a me thing, but when I run dungeons, I treat talt as the reward. If I get something else it’s a bonus, and if I’m feeling lucky, I reroll. I go in expecting talt, so I don’t get upset when talt is the reward.
This is per character. Each character you make has it’s own set of dungeon/mission runs available to it, if I’m not mistaken.
Oh right. Yeah, so, I actually would like the talt rate to be lowered. Not because I want less talt. I think dungeon boxes should be filled with mediocre equipment for that level, or rare crafting materials, or other moderately useful stuff. The reason I want talt drop rates to decrease is because I want players to actually view it as something valuable. As far as I can tell, could play seems like it’s supposed to be the end game, and I think making talt scarcer and making it do more things for guilds would go a long way in that direction.
Enchant Fire? Probably not, but Sacrament/Blessing is easy to come by as more Pardoners start showing up.
Again, stats are pretty linear, and so are upgrades. Take the time to upgrade a Cafrisun set to +12 and it’ll hold for a long time compared to items in the upper sets. Many people wear the Rokas Shirts for a long time as well.
Archers definitely aren’t having issues with that, and most spear users take Circle 1 in Peltasta for Swashbuckling. They probably aren’t running to any large groups of mobs.
I’m pretty sure Gems go much higher than 5 unless they capped it for some reason. Because STR gets a 10% bonus per rank, you’ll get more damage and crit damage out of each point in strength compared to each point in dex. Even if you lost some Crit Damage/Max Damage from it, its doesn’t offset it enough where you’re losing out in damage.
As far as evasion is concerned, if you’re honestly putting more points into evasion, then these types of items that raise elemental damage for your main weapon are that much more important as you aren’t getting the STR for damage, but those equips for damage. These allow you to put more points in Dexterity. Dexterity Master and the 50% bonus for having all Evasion gear helps, and I’m not sure what gems add Evasion to armor but I’m sure you can use those as well. Basically, your boot refinement, gems, helmet enchants, accessories, and any bonuses to evasion you can muster (Archer’s Swift Step for example) can offset your stat choices. For a PvE focused character, Accuracy has not been a concern for many.
If that’s all the CC there is, then that issue falls flat. One could still use an Arde Dagger in the offhand and get all the benefits of its added damage to their mace attacks and still get the stuns from the mastery.
I go in expecting Talt and I’m still disappointed when I see Talt. Its a you thing, otherwise this topic probably wouldn’t be up. I didn’t make it.
That is per character, and it may be ok for you to have 4 characters at level 90 just to farm this place. Fast forward to 200 and you probably wont have that many for a little while for those dungeons. Paying to double your chances by getting a token is a lot easier, so again, its a sort of pay to win situation.
