Tree of Savior Forum

My story as a fencing lover and the 1v1 build

Just a warn: If you are a utilitarian player and prioritize efficiency and don’t care much about the thematic element, I suggest to stay off.

This post have two parts, one which talks about my life experience and other concerning the build of a specific fencer play style. You can jump the first part if you don’t want the yadda yadda.

With that clear, here’s a yet another fencer topic.

Part I: Introduction

Firstly, I would like to say that I never posted in any online game forum concerning whatever I could have discussed. And it was the case because I never thought that any MMO had a public that would answer to this kind of subject well. However, I find that here in this forum, trolls and haters aside, there is a good bunch who loves some renaissance blade dueling!

Well dunno if there is anyone who would read this, but I will try to be short: I love fencer inspired characters. It started with the so famous fencer betrayers from the “Tales of” series, a little of Bushido Blade, Fiora (the only thing that locks me to LoL, otherwise I would not play it) and I am quite fond of fencing as an sport itself, though never had the money to practice it. Maybe games is my way of making such a wish real.

Anyway, when I fist heard from a friend that ToS would have Fencers, that totally blew my mind. I was happy because I could finally build a fencer profile in a open world.

And then I waited for the iToS launch and when the date was arrivng, I started a study of how to make my ideal fencer.

Part II: The optimal 1v1 build

Now, getting into why I’m posting it here in the Swordsman section, I would like to discuss a optimal build for a specific role that all the present builds do not concern very strictly, which is one on one duels against players or 1v1 pvp. I know that the focus is team league when talking about pvp, but try to bear with me as 1v1 duels is the main objective of my fencer.

I had played the beta a little and mainly focused on the LoliLicker build as a form of orienting myself. Although I always worked with theory, that is, never really made practical experiments, for I lack the tools and time, I concluded that his build was lacking an important element of the fencing theme: the Riposte.

Now, try to bear with me, I’m not saying that he did not invest in the preparation skill, I’m not blind. My point is, for pvp purposes, high damage is not the best weapon. And I think that it was not his objective to make an optimal pvp build, so I’m not blaming our loli admirer. One thing that I learned from pvp oriented games is that crowd control is the thing, which his build lacks.

Summarizing, for good 1v1 we need some little things:

-CC and Anti-CC
-Gap closer
-Movement Speed
-Forms of negating types of defense
-Sustain (both HP and SP)

So my idea is, which tools do we have now?
-Rodelero for good CC and maybe some Anti-CC
-Corsair for gap closer (maybe barbarian as well).
-Swordsman already run, just need his plate stamina
-Fencer already have nice armor penetration
-Dunno if there is a element that helps with sustain

So, do you think, for this purpose, the path rodelero>corsair>fencer is the optimal? Or does it lacks too much damage and we have to sacrifice some ranks for barbarian/swordC2~3?

I already read a lot of builds from tosbase and here in the forums alike, so try to offer something more than the class choosing.

Never forget to stay en Garde!

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I am a newb, but am really into fencer build discussion, so bear with my theory which may not be true on a lot of things.

if what you mean is sw-pelt2-rod2-corsair-fencer (I personally prefer sw2 instead of pelt2). Yeah there will be a lots of debuff, but the problem is one thing. Can you land those debuff on your enemy? For me personally, rodel could be awesome, but cmiiw the skill animation is quite slow. Instead, you sacrifice too many damage for this path. Such as Fencer Rapier Aggression attributes, and the skill rotation doesn’t help on multiplying the next skill dmge. But who knows. Maybe rodel CC and anti CC could be awesomely useful on pvp environment.

Hope some exp player discuss their fencer build and pvp impression here so most newbie fencer wannabe could have a little insight before choosing their playstyle class path.

If you wan’t to be the best 1v1er I would suggest shinobi instead of fencer. With your build you will have problems with some mage builds (Kino3 will kill you 10/10) and I also think cata3 will give you alot of trouble. With shinobi you can open first or reset the fight if you mess up, shinobi can also burst with clones+kunai from a more forgiving distance (making iron hook more usefull).

  • Swordsman 3 > Rodelero 2 > Corsair > Shinobi - IMO is the best build for 1v1’s.
  • Swordsman 3 > Rodelero 2 > Fencer 2 - Very strong.
  • Swordsman 3 > rodelero 3 > Corsair - Very strong.

When KTOS patches hit all rodelero builds will be very nice in 1v1 and also 5v5.

Really Fencer plays well into so many builds, even just C1, so there’s quite a few options. Corsair is one of the best for Swordsman PvP, so you could try a C2 Corsair > C1 Fencer. This would give you Attaque Coquille > Hexen Dropper burst. Hook with the bleeding attribute. Get you a Venom, and could possibly proc poison with your connected auto attacks in Double Weapon Assault. Then you’d have those lovely evasion increase skills, no cool down block, and slash damage increase.

After I typed all this up though, I looked and seen this conflicts with taking Rodelero, which just slithering /slur and all those nifty buffs they’ll be getting. Still, worth considering Corsair, at least C1. Hook utility (better if you use a mouse) and the flag for farming or group damage buffs is great.

The problem of not going fencer 2 is you loose preparation wich is necessary for your burst. Preparation > cancel > ataque conquile > sept etoiles = double damage with 100% defense bypass.

i summon you @LoliLicker !
Enlight us with your loli thoughts about that rodelero>corsair>fencer path

But rodeleros need shield and if you take corsair you’ll lose Dust devil (unless you try swapping weapons to use the skills)

Thanks for the replies!

@wilson.tjua

Actually I preferred to only take peltasta1, because this cicle make you a good guy and make your leveling easier and somewhat fun. But I do agree that more cicles of swordman tends to give more PVP tools in the Fencer logic.

My choice for rodelero is for protection against magic damage, as I was considering the future patches related to Slithering, and well, more CC.

@matheuscrosara1

Well, If I wanted to be the best 1v1er I think I would not be playing swordsman heh.

@AnitaCafe

The ideal scenario would be having more ranks, which is something valid to expect, as it was mentioned…10 ranks before the launch? That would make the Fencer build a lot easier.

@Epten

Man, I was going to summon him, but I didn’t had the courage. Thanks for doing it! Moe shall light our path.

Well, the ideia of getting rodelero is just for specific battles that having more damage doesn’t add up, like some builds which have 0 focus on defense. In this scenario, you have to sustain your already nice damage, and not increase it. Honestly, If slithering was a cicle1 skill, I would not invest further in this class.

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I wouldn’t say necessary, but highly optional. Attaque Coquille + Hexen Dropper is /sluuuuur.

@migliole I’m pretty sure we’ll have even more classes to choose from as well, it’s going to make it a tight fit, and the newer classes may even be mandatory/you-have-to-consider-it-because-of-whatever-damage-boost-utility-etc. I believe they stated they wanted to make old classes damage fade out, or something to that effect. It’s going to be interesting to see what they do with incoming ranks.

Indeed, damage tends to fade out, however not utility. And if you take the most efficient buffs, which are %based, they will always scale.

And which classes have those said buffs? I believe we can easily fit peltasta and fencer here.

Rodelero tends to fit as well, as long as it is the only CC based class. But I wish for a CC class with universal usage, shields tend to decrease damage, as it is seen by the Agression atribute.

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Wut, have you even played pvp?, the time to land preparation is too long and even to land all the hits with sept is almost impossible with moving targets, your best bet for pvp are all c1 skills that are attaque that make even your AA hit with 0 def and the 0 cd flanco, swordsman in pvp don’t burst… at least not something that don’t have shinobi or corsair, all other builds are around kitting and hit some AA (and if you manage to knockdown or stun something you could spam some skills but not preparation and sept …blame the long animation), that’s why sw3-cata3 is the way to go, can hit while running with rush and proc restrain, then run the ■■■■ out and repeat, and in groups they can kidnap someone and let the team kill him.

@Baadaq

Well, preparation would not be used better for defensive purposes? I don’t know much how it really works, but at least it should work like the riposte move. Damaging would be like, the bonus part of the skill.

And well, Sept Etoiles. This is the typical skill of multiple stabs that exists in many fencers incarnations that, although have a nice epic tone to it, it is useless on real duels.

Real fencing should be about hitting weak points (%HP based dmg), not mimicking Star Platinum. Unless you stunned or made an stagger effect with each successful hit (like restrain on auto-attacks), then it would be effective.

One thing that would also make things nice would be a dash lunge.

Wishful thinking.

hi, i have a sw-highlander3 and for rank 5 i think there is not any good options, just squire and corsair c1, what should i pick? ofc i want fencer c2 for my last ranks.

@huachimingox28

Depends on what you want for endgame. Is it PVP? Then Corsair will be needed.

Only choose Squire for PVE support and money.

but squire c1 it’s useless even for money making right? i dont like the idea of going peltasta or swordman c2 at rank 5… and corsair c1 it’s so meh, dust devil sucks and jolly roger its bugged i think… i which i could be corsair c2, but giving up on fencer c2 doesn’t feel right.

Well, although I agree with you, don’t worry too much, soon we will have more ranks for distribution. Maybe there will be a better class that fit your tastes.

The only problem is that you will have to choose between making a path now or waiting for the extension.

Judge your priorities.

i’m sure the new class “Matador” will be evolution of fencers!..like Lancer for hipolites

@migliole

I would be wary of TOSBase builds, as most of them give pretty bad advise, are outdated or lack general knowledge of how the classes perform at higher levels or on different environments.

Anyways, you covered pretty well the basic principles that a PvP (in this case duel oriented) build must meet. Unfortunately, many of those tools are not available in the Swordsman tree, leading to few options to choose from to truly perform in PvP scenarios.

As a Fencer you are already at a disadvantage because you lack a gap closer, a way to increase your movement speed as well as reliable way to guarantee that you deal damage through your skills, as most of them require you to stand still to be used.

This is why most people will suggest you to instead look into a Cataphract build as it has the highest movement speed from all the Swordsman classes, as well as different interactions or skills that help a lot in PvP against moving targets.

But well, since this is a Fencer build then we have to find a way to cover those weaknesses and try to craft a build that would be centered around duels, even if it means being sub-optimal on other scenarios.

You pretty much already found the right build, so I will only expand each part if it helps on anything.

This is the build that I suggest:

Swordsman->Peltasta->Barbarian->Rodelero C2->Fencer->Corsair

or

Swordsman->Peltasta C2->Rodelero C2->Fencer->Corsair

(I started typing out and ended up doing a mini guide before I realized it, so decided to format it like one).


###Why not Swordsman C2/C3?

Because you don’t have a reliable way to take advantage of Restrain as a Fencer.

To properly use Restrain you want to have a damage source that lets you stay on top of your enemy and deal multiple hits, quickly and constantly, to have the highest chance of activating it’s effect and capitalize on it.

This is why Rush from Cataphract, Cyclone from Doppelsoeldner and Pouncing from Barbarian C3 are the best skills to take advantage of Restrain, as they let you move while attacking and deal multiple quick hits through a period of time. As long as one of those hits triggers the effect of Restrain then you will have a good window to deal more damage and most likely finish off your enemy from that.

Since Fencer doesn’t have any skill like those, you wouldn’t be able to take advantage of Restrain and while it could activate from time to time, you could go through an entire duel without it activating it’s effect or you dealing hits constantly enough to benefit from it.

###Why Peltasta C1?

+18% Evasion.

Like you said, high damage is not necessarily the best weapon to use in a PvP scenario and there are many other ways to overpower your opponents, one of them being evasion.

Evasion is one of the strongest tools that you can use in PvP against physical classes. Unless a character invests heavily into DEX+Accuracy, it is going to have a very hard time landing hits on a character that built on a high amount of Evasion and the entire fight could be decided from you evading their best skills or highest cooldown ones.

They can build more Accuracy through gems and refining their gloves, so you want to be sure to maximize the amount Evasion that you can get from your Fencer as you will fight many different builds with a wide range of Accuracy.

This percentage increase on your Evasion not only will increase the extra Evasion that you acquire from gems and equipment, but also from your Fencer skills.

+25% Block and Manual Block.

Now, while Evasion is a pretty nice tool to use it is not always going to be effective. What happens if you meet another high DEX opponent?

You want to make sure that you have another way to mitigate their damage and Block is the perfect choice for this.

Best of all, you can block passively but also use manual block to significantly increase your block and keep it up indefinitely. Suddenly you can nullify their strongest skill and just wait it out while it ends, leaving them with a massive cooldown and you with barely any damage taken.

These two in combination already give you a huge advantage and will overwhelm any builds without a good amount of Accuracy or Block Penetration.

###Why Barbarian C1?

Mainly because there are not many options that you can take at Rank 3.

Helm Chopper gives you an active skill to stun your opponent, it is quick and while it’s area of effect is not as big as Seism, it is still a pretty good skill to have on your kit.

Cleave will let you have another option to burst down stunned enemies.

###Why Peltasta C2?

Mainly because of High Guard.

Why even think about using that when it reduces your Physical Attack by 50% and Critical Rate by 50?

The Critical Rate is not going to matter too much because you will be building high DEX and gearing with Critical Rate anyways.

Once you meet high DEX opponents, your evasion is not going to be of much use. This will force you into a straight up DPS vs HP battle that you might not be able to win, especially against Archers. Being unable to win some of these fights, you will need to rely on a different strategy to win.

The Physical Attack will significantly decrease your damage, however it is not going to be too much of a concern because it is part of a strategy. And this is to try to get your Block as high as possible through the Peltasta kit as well as CON and equipment.

It is not reliable, but on an otherwise unwinnable fight, if you manage to block enough significant incoming attacks that might be just enough to give you a chance to win these duels.

###Why Rodelero C2?

Block and Evasion already covered your advantages against physical attack users. However, now you have to worry about magical damage.

Slithering gives you the ability to completely nullify magical damage and while it doesn’t block CC (for now), it is enough to completely avoid or stall out the most important skills from those magical classes.

With good timing, you will be able to give yourself small windows of opportunity where they won’t have their best magical skills available and where you will be able to chase them freely to try to land your CC’s on them.

While the Rodelero kit offers you some CC, it isn’t very reliable and won’t play a major role on your overall win condition, but they are nice to have in case you missed your other CC abilities.

Shield Charge will play a major role against Clerics, as you will be able to push them out of their Safety Zone, giving you a small window to go all out on them and try to finish them off before they can heal themselves back up.

###Why Corsair?

Iron Hook. This is your main win condition with this build:

Dash to your enemy, get within melee range to land Iron Hook and then proceed to burst them down with your highest damage skills.

Nothing else, really.

If you manage to land a melee range Iron Hook you most likely will win the duel out of that as this skill is even able to get through Plague Doctor’s Bloodletting.

Everything else in this build is meant to give you the highest chance to land a melee range Iron Hook.

You only have 9 seconds to act on it, but that should be more than enough time to burst down most if not all opponents through a proper rotation of your Fencer skills.

In the case that you are not able to finish them off within those 9 seconds for whatever reason, you can also use this time to apply other debuffs or hard CC and try to finish them off on the following seconds after your Iron Hook ends.

###Is it going to be pretty?

Not really.

It will require a lot of skill from you as a player, as you will be on a disadvantage on most duels, but you will have plenty of tools to try to outplay your opponent and take a win from them.

Some fights might just be straight up impossible to win, like a Priest with Revive where you will have to kill them twice, meaning stalling out 25 seconds so you can use your Iron Hook combo again and that might be too much time before you drop dead on the floor.

Other classes have too many potent CC skills and it might be really hard to close the gap to reach them, but Slithering and Dashing will at the very least give you a small chance of doing so.

There are certainly other builds that could do better than a Fencer, but this build is the best chance you will have with this class to go into duels.

###Any hope for the future?

The massive buffs to Slithering on kTOS as well as other minor buffs might make this build better if/when those changes arrive into our version.

And well, this build also works for PvE as a lurer/tank and it also has potential for GvG and even arena PvP.

###What about stats?

You want a lot of DEX, not only for Evasion but also to cover your Accuracy to hit those with that type of build.

Lots of CON, not only for Block but also a high HP pool that works against any type of damage.

SPR? Depends on what you consider a duel. Will you be able to use potions? Then SPR might not be necessary.

However, SPR does increase your chance of resisting certain types of status ailments like Sleep, Freeze, etc; so you might want to experiment with this and see if it works out for you. It certainly is not reliable but it might, from time to time, be the reason why you win a duel.

If you do decide to use SPR, then you want to stay at around 65~67 SPR total and then cover the rest with Max Petamion and Venier, so you can reach around 100 total, although you can keep it at a lower value if you want to.

You can also get a minimal amount of STR (around 40~50) for leveling up, but it isn’t necessary and you can skip it if you are willing to level up slightly slower at lower levels.

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Hoh, look, @Cathexis answered me. That makes me happy.

Well, I was arriving at that conclusion as well. Tosbase guides are indeed not good paths to follow now, and we can’t blame the authors, as we have a pretty undefined game here. I was harsh on Lolicker in a way considering this. Sorry dood.

Anyway, any guide that inserts a barbarian + not all circles of Fencer will be ugly. But I did like the second one. If Slithering was a first circle skill things would be much easier. Why don’t they relocate that already? (or give it to the peltastas hehe)

But like you said in one of your guides:

Right now PvP is extremely undeveloped.

And looking at those “spanish-like classes” that are coming, as mentioned by @huachimingox28 and even my high expected Fencer3 circle, we might get more tools.

But frankly, it’s not easy to accurately make a Fencer character in a game. The only one I think that got nice results was Fiora from LoL, but it was in that game’s terms. Most of what they put there would be absurd in ToS.

Although I might end leaving the duel concept aside till we get updates, the whole discussion is still a nice contribution for those who are yet to come.

Thanks Cathexis for your nice contribution!

Hey since cathexis is here, how does Highlander works in a Fencer path for pvp. Does cross guard stagger could really work to counter archer / catapract? And does skyliner could deals way more damage than cleave?
I am planning to go Fencer templar, that is why I wouldnt go rode2 corsair fencer. Any suggestion? Am a casual player, so wont bother on too much detailing to be the best anyway.

Yeah, I don’t think we will see such a smooth Fencer game-play in TOS. Maybe something like the pre-rework Fiora, but might take a while.

I don’t think Highlander is too good for PvP in this case.

The only reason for going into Highlander is to use Cross Guard to boost up the Pierce damage from Fencer.

It not only requires you to block a physical attack, but it also forces you to lower your Evasion and increase your STR to make it work reliably. Which is pretty bad for PvP for the reasons stated on my previous post.

If you are a casual player, I am not sure if going into Templar is too good of an idea. Sure, you are able to create a guild but that usually goes to more dedicated players that can keep the activity on the guild running consistently.

That is why most people that make a Templar just make a new character for combat after they are done with the Templar, as using it puts you at a huge disadvantage already compared to other builds.

If you want to mix Templar with Fencer then I would just stick to a more traditional Barbarian route.