Tree of Savior Forum

Is being a tanker viable?

General Discussion
#1

as someone who isn’t able to play this game (no key T_T),is being a tanker viable on this game? pve or pvp standpoint? or tanks not really needed in the game coz dps chars owns everything?

also, i read somewhere (forgot the link) where def is so linear … ea: if you have 100 def and enemy attack is 1000, the damage you’ll receive is 900. if there are good def items and def enhancer skills then this is good but if it’s like others games where end game def is like 2-4k while the end game attack is like 15-20k then this is really bad. better have an evas items/stat/skills than def.

also are full supports viable? seem like all the necessary buffs are until rank 3-4 and doesnt offer much support skills on later ranks… as what i understood on the skill descriptions i read…

i’m asking this because i’m trying to decide whether i go tank or support when i’m finally able to play.

#2

yes and no.

PvE

in the current meta you need to be a decent DPS/off-tank.meaning at team oriented raids you need to take at least 1 rank of peltasta in your build to get lvl 5 swashbuckling = AoE provoke ability to get monster to aggro you.

Maybe in future raids might need actual full tanks to finish them, but not in the current ones.

PvP

no pvp as of now, only duels, full tanks cant do damage dont count them to. in PvP arena they are useless and are often ignored and killed off later. in Guild battle they are surely the frontline fighters if they ever implement a castle siege, but no word on IMC as of yet.

HOWEVER

if going beyond peltast1, you know that irregardless of any game as full tanks and full supports arent going to deal significant damage and must know this. play full tank only if your always playing with friends/guildmates else your going to be a masochist if your gonna solo play a full tank.

ask @WatchGintama (the only person i know here that went full tank with high CON and with arena PvP videos)

ALTERNATES to PELTAST

None, as its the only class that can provoke and draw aggro to themselves. Centurion used to be the alternated but the class has been removed until further notice.

Rodelero might look like a tank but its more of a CC(crowd control) warrior that uses shields.

Paladin might look like a tank but its another support class.

classes with Peltast off-tank

Hoplite is the best option for a offtank( even full tank in theory) and works well with Peltast class. Finestra hoplite buff grants you with BLOCK rate and CRIT rate increase. if interested with hoplite see guide and ask question to [Guide] Hoplite - By Cathexis by @Cathexis

Peltast>Hoplite>Cataphract if you want to ride a mount.

Corsair2 if you want to wield daggers, you can use Swashbuckling with daggers.

sometimes Barbarians/Highlander (DPS classes) get peltast 1 for team oriented play, you can opt for daggers to not lose any DPS rather than shields that give no bonus offense.

Fencer is your alternate for a ‘evasion’ tank, but doesnt get rapier benefits if your equiped with a shield.

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#3

thanks for the reply…

yes, i don’t mind not doing significant damage as long it can help get things done. one prob though, i don’t have friends to play with T_T (they are preoccupied in dota2. ~sigh), but it’s possible to get random guys and join their party right?.. i know from exp on other games the tank builds doesn’t amount much in pve especially on early stages of the game… and just wondering if on later stages of the game it will change, but i guess it can’t be answered yet aotm. and yeah, if there are siege/raids it would be great.

also for full support… i guess they are not needed huh? don’t get much love. i guess everyone choose cleric class so they could get monk class…

man, i miss those days where tanks and supports are needed…

hope the cbt end soon so i have a chance to get a key on the next cbt or just be able to play if it’s obt. but sadly it was extended. those who got to play are rejoicing while we who hasn’t are sobbing in the corner getting cobwebs T_T. #sadlife

sorry for the drama. :smiley:

i guess, necromancer with it’s cool looking flesh cannon is the only choice left. :sweat_smile:

#4

Hoping also for cbt to end so we can play open or something. Playing and farming so much will be for nothing as it will be wiped after cbt

#5

I must admit i dnt tested any dedicated tank build myself but i played the first instances of game (only places were you can fully test builds) and a tank with lots of constitution and mass provoke skills was extremely helpfull in combination with my cartar stroke and seism, obviously we can clear instances without a dedicated tank but with a good tanker everything is safer, at least on my tests the parties i joined were a tank was present no one died a single time but in parties with just dps players some died, of course player skill can influence this too.

#6

i assume your talking about cleric FS

full support is kinda out of noose right now. as that the only class req for it is taking krivis1 for Daino. there is a max number of buff each player can have which is 5. Daino increases max buff by skill level. If you dont have Daino and you buff your party, you’ll overlap your teammates self buffs and ruin their combat effectiveness.

Coincedentally krivis also has the earliest real DPS cleric has. Zaibas, without attributes, will damage a single target until it dies or the zaibas attack count depletes, this includes flying targets which cure and heal cannot damage. yes CURE & HEAL can damage enemy ground targets. Zaibas, Cure, Heal damage will eventually fall off at higher levels.

The other optional req is taking Priest1 for Resurect. but its CBT and everyone can self resurect themselves with premium coins which is why its not really that important right now. once OBT comes it might be a real requirement for non-premium players to party up with a priest.

there is also an option for FS wizard but without Daino buff from Krivis it will difficult to work around. Unless you buy pardoner Daino Scrolls. if daino can be crafted even(?)

paging @Tsuyucchi can pardoner craft Daino scroll?

.

#7

my friend… you’ve just showed me a glimmer of hope.

#8

Daino is able to make with simony.

#9

so there is your answer @ataya

so long as the party, even without a krivis, has Daino Scrolls. FS wizard is a good to go.

#10

Ive been soling fine with a full CON Peltasta C3. When I had trouble killing things or just didn’t want to spend anytime grinding I just asked if anyone would help me and join my party, which is surprisingly easy. Nothing better then having a tank in a grind party who can pull all the mobs for you without taking any damage at all. Im currently lvl 156.

#11

oh thank you. beginning to like this community.

if only character death have bigger consequences… people will start loving us supports/tanks back… that is if they don’t quit :sweat_smile:

#12

i miss that word. ‘grinding’. i mean, who doesn’t miss it?! coz almost every new games have those easy and safe auto-path quests (not to mention auto attacks) where soloing is encouraged, “hassle free”… man, i can even be asleep and not even die once.

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#13

there is a skill by rodelero that all attacks will miss even magic…

#14

Since no one’s replied to this part yet:

No, defense isn’t that linear. It goes before all the multipliers bar the rare base attack or base skill damage modifiers. This usually wont really apply to PvE for a monster hitting you though. Monsters dont exactly have that many damage modifiers. It’s incredibly valuable in reverse though, as well as PvP.

Let’s say an enemy has 500 Attack, you’re wearing cloth and they use a Slash skill that has 600 Skill Attack.

(600 + 500) * 1.5 = 1650 Damage, if you didnt have any defense.
((600 + 500) - 100) * 1.5 = 1500 Damage, a 150 damage decrease with 100 defense
((600 + 500) - 200) * 1.5 = 1350, a 300 damage decrease with 200 defense.

Evasion wont help you against magic attacks, so the only way to reduce their damage is with magic defense (and a lot of magic attacks from players have modifiers!).

The main issue with defense and especially magic defense, is how its really hard to get a lot of.

#15

so basically, arround 150% of the actual def is the damage reduction… so how about the the attack:def ratio… don’t have to be end game def-atk…

#16

I guess I qualify as a Full Support / Debuff, half of my points go to SPR. Cleric -> Priest -> Priest -> Krivis

My answer for “Role” depends on your team, and I think it is much closer to No then Yes.

I joined a high survivability dungeon party (no aggro, no clear tank, but either high DEX or some CON with CCs), and no one needs major heal (my buff/debuff are better use in this situation with their points on defense). And the biggest issue on heal is Cool down. This makes me think that the optimal built for everyone is not pure stats build, and you are not necessarily need a pure tank or support, but focus on attack combos and timing (short buffs).

Regarding defense being linear, it is not true as someone explained above. I tried with full SPR on another Priest, and the magic defense is a huge difference compare to low SPR. I can simply mob with little heal / safety zone. But since I don’t need full SPR for my skills (Deprotected over strip defense regardless).

#17

The answer for the original question in this thread is; Yes

The Swordsman Tree is very versatile and can virtually fulfill any role (well except being full support); and what other tree is best suited to be a tank other than Swordies.

Now to answer the first post of the OP.

as someone who isn’t able to play this game (no key T_T),is being a tanker viable on this game? pve or pvp standpoint?

PvE

IMC games made classes with essential skills for being a tank like crowd controls (stuns, slows, knockdowns, etc.) and grouping skills (swashbuckling and arrest) which make mob management for a party a lot easier.
Also, to be an effective tank you should always have to deal a decent amount of damage by utilizing your AoE skills ( Cleave, Seism, etc. ) to attack a multitude of mobs or by using boss slaying skills ( Pierce, Stabbing, Earth Wave, etc. ) which chunks a good amount of HP from bosses.

PvP

Yes, yes and yes. Tanks can be really effective in PvPs, especially for the ones who have a many disabling skills like Rodelero couple it up with the speed and power of the Cataphract.
IMO, Rodelero was made to PvP; I mean, look at those skills! Disables everywhere! Out of 8 skills, only 3 of them doesn’t have any sort of CCs, so expect to be irritated when you see a Rodelero in PvP. At the case of the Cataphract; they have powerful skills matched with peerless mobility because of Ride mount added with Trot, they can kite you and just run around waiting for their Cooldowns to finish.

also, i read somewhere (forgot the link) where def is so linear … ea: if you have 100 def and enemy attack is 1000, the damage you’ll receive is 900. if there are good def items and def enhancer skills then this is good but if it’s like others games where end game def is like 2-4k while the end game attack is like 15-20k then this is really bad. better have an evas items/stat/skills than def.

As someone already replied to this question; I’ll just add some of my opinions regarding about defense and tanks.

A traditional tank would prefer high HP and Physical Defense with an occasional Magic Defense as this was common scene on older MMORPGs like RO1 and from other RPGs; but here in ToS, it is better to reduce the hits you would take by either evading it with High Evasion Rate or just by Blocking it.
I didn’t say it is bad to have high Phy Def or Mag Def, but it will help you a lot if you invest in some of your stats to CON for block rate and HP, and DEX for accuracy and evasion.

#18

Hello,

I too approached the beta with tank vs full support. I’ll give you my input as a strict PVE player. (level 120).]

Full Support Healer/Priest:
I started as a full support priest. I wanted to focus purely on support as I had a party to help level me up. I was using high CON/SPR for defensive purposes. Full support is pretty boring in my opinion in PVE. The only time I felt challenged to keep my party alive was during instanced dungeons. To be honest, when I started my full support I was hoping to be the guy that works hard to keep the team alive. Unfortunately, during questing, grinding I just felt more like a heal slave–which got old fast. If there were more challenging content, I would probably role a full support, but as it stands, majority of the game is pretty easy.

ps; the ONLY time people in my party died were in instanced Dungeons.

Tank Peltasta
As a PVE tank I decided to try high CON and SPR again as it seemed to make my priest pretty much unkillable–it worked. I was pretty tanky and could pull mobs. Again, I felt the most useful as a pure tank in instanced dungeons. I found with my second playthrough, however, that this game is more grindy and quest based in which a tank is not needed. The downside to being a dedicated tank, was that I required help to really progress as I couldn’t do much damage.

What I’ve learned:
Hybrids. I think, at least in this beta, Hybrids are a more viable option for enjoyment. If you want to roll a full support, you can still have heals and do dps. Most support in this content is just heals (although there are other awesome buffs of course). If you want to tank, try a class that has synergy with Peltasta. I most enjoyed my hoplite/cataphract with a focus on DPS. You can tank when needed, grind when needed, dps when needed, and solo when needed.

Anyways, these are just my two cents.

TLDR; (PVE) Majority of the content is not that difficult without a tank or a full support healer. Some places, like instanced dungeons, require them. In my opinion, hybrid builds (dps with heals/buffs or tanking abilities) would be best suited for players who like to focus on one or the other as instanced dungeons are in the minority in terms of content.

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#19

so for tanks to be successful… either go with eva or block like in RF? instead of going traditional way full con.

#20

Only in that example. If more multipliers would be taken into account (skills themselves, elements for magic, attributes, buffs, debuffs) the difference wouldn’t be 150%. It all adds up quickly.