If you do make a SPR build because of Stone Skin, then of course it’s more intuitive to take the other SPR scaling skills.
My main point is just that they all suck and don’t make up to what you’re losing for not going INT or CON or DEX. Stone Skin is the only decent SPR skill.
Sometimes I wonder if it’s not better just giving up on Stone Skin and supporting the party in different ways like Carve World Tree in a CON build for full support.
The mention of Monstrance and Deprotected wasn’t because I intended to level Monstrance past 1, nor am I leaving anything but leftover points on Deprotected. Rather, the skills are there, and can be useful in some scenarios in a SPR build, so that’s a bonus.
Zalciai applying to the whole party is a huge upside tbh, at least in paper. The reason it must end up not being that good is that the current meta demands more magical DPS than physical, but for physical DPS (or people with at least partly physical damage), would I be wrong in assuming it’s essentially the best crit buff in the game? Giving as much crit as a full DEX build to a STR-based ranged DPS/Swordie (after swordie patches, if they apply here) sounds very very desirable.
But yeah, Deprotected’s there only for bossing/stationary enemies and counting as a debuff for PD, and maybe aiding in leveling a bit after you hit 200+ but still have to solo quest. Also did not know that about Monstrance, thanks for the tip, I never intended to level it past 1 but now I’ll be absolutely sure not to. I’d at least raise Deprotected to lv1 since it’s situationally useful and helps PD teammates though, and Monstrance in particular gives a big buff to DEX builds so I’d say it’s worth the 1 point.
On current SPR FS: tbh I’d go with INT instead, since you get op heals (especially if you pop a Restoration scroll) and get actual DPS to contribute with… full CON sounds to me like it’s only relevant in PvP/GvG (or perhaps for dedicated tanks), in PvM more than 130~150 won’t contribute much.
Full SPR allows you to use Barrier scrolls optimally, too, so that’s desirable for Earth Tower. And based on @rya.reisender’s experience, Monstrance is one hit less to kill per 4 hits, so… 25% bonus physical damage? Is that on regular monsters? Either way, if that’s true the defense reduction’s really high, so definitely worth it on bosses (even if the ratio’s most likely much lower on them).
IF we get the Blessing update, though, that’s a whole other story. That’ll be enough for full SPR builds to suddenly become the standard for both support P3 and Chaplain…
Well we can just put the real numbers, y’know.
Deprotected Zone increases damage by 1 each SPR. Monstrance Debuff increases damage by 0.4 each SPR + hardly ever miss.
You really shouldn’t use Monstrance as debuff except for bosses, though. It’s super annoying to aim. In the time you got a monster to actually run into it, you could have killed 10. Using it for the 1.3x DEX is nice for DEX builds, though.
And I actually like that several buffs benefit physical classes more than Wizards, brings back some balance in endgame. Too bad I couldn’t convince my friend to play Archer.
Is that an actual damage increase, or a defense decrease? I don’t really know how def works in this game, but most likely a def decrease of 1 would net a physical damage increase much lower than 1, no?
also the numbers don’t help when we don’t know how much def bosses have sdfghj (that’s why i mentioned your experimental data in the first place, rather than going to the wiki)
And yeah, I read you mentioning that Monstrance’s aim is weirdly bugged somewhere in this thread earlier. And same.
I actually think 1 defense decrease equals about 1 damage increase. When I was a young cleric with 60 SPR and could only deal 1 HP damage per hit to each monster, Deprotected Zone increased that damage to around 60 damage.
Not sure if negative DEF works on ToS or not.
1 Defense is 1 damage only if you don’t have any multipliers in your attack.
I don’t think negative def works, but negative crit resist surely does (zalciai debuff).
It can get your party members crit up to 100% (or something really close to that) really easily if they are already DEX builds. But it’s stil not that great because of the skill cooldown and the fact mobs need to pass through zalciai to take the debuff. You can’t use it on every mob you encounter, just like deprotected, so that’s a big downside to these skills.
[quote=“mrshadowccg, post:26, topic:292988”]
It can get your party members crit up to 100% (or something really close to that) really easily if they are already DEX builds. But it’s stil not that great because of the skill cooldown and the fact mobs need to pass through zalciai to take the debuff. You can’t use it on every mob you encounter, just like deprotected, so that’s a big downside to these skills.
[/quote]20s isn’t that long though, especially endgame. And still tasty for bossing. I just wish the meta wasn’t so magic-centered… do you know if it’s still mostly magic even on kToS, where Swordie line is significantly stronger and buffed Skyliner exists?
side random question: how do you make spoilers on this forum? i assume it’s done with html? [spoiler] bbcode tag doesn’t work
Sorry I have no idea about kToS. But I believe swordies still to be considered ‘underpowered’ in there. That’s why kToS is still getting buffs to swordies (like the cleave bonus they got a couple weeks ago).
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</details>How long does the Zalciai buff last anyway? Doesn’t say in the skill description.
According to a comment on tosbase, 40 seconds, but I have no idea if that’s for the buff part, debuff, or both.
Okay so I guess it’s easily possible to keep the buff active 100% of the time.
We don’t know if that number is for the buff, debuff, or both, so if the buff lasts 40s and the debuff 10 (???) it might not be 100% upkeep. Well, IMC is IMC so it isn’t impossible for them to do something like that, but still unlikely.
On another note, are you getting notifications from me trying to reply to you? (I’m not)
Buff and debuff lasts ~40 seconds.
Circle on the floor lasts ~5 seconds regardless of skill level.
Enemies/Allies stay debuffed/buffed even if they step out of the circle (or the circle ends).
[quote=“mrshadowccg, post:33, topic:292988, full:true”]
Buff and debuff lasts ~40 seconds.
Circle on the floor lasts ~5 seconds regardless of skill level.
Enemies/Allies stay debuffed/buffed even if they step out of the circle (or the circle ends).
[/quote]Alright, thanks for the confirmation. Will add the info to tosbase comments if you don’t mind.
After a little bit of testing, I can confirm to you that the circle on the floor lasts precisely 6 seconds and the duration attribute works for both the buff and the debuff part of Zalciai.
Okay, added the info in comments. But welp, good to know the skill’s working properly at least, with same duration for buff and debuff… it’s depressing that we always have to test for bugs before assuming the skill will work…
(Do you get the notification if I reply to you like this? I sometimes don’t get them from replies, only quote/mention)
Additional info relevant to FS Cleric builds:
[quote=“rya.reisender, post:9, topic:292988”]
First of all, those scrolls are rarely sold (I don’t even find them at the market at all, do they even have Daino in their name?).
Even if they are, they are probably expensive. Good luck convincing your whole party to keep the buffs active themselves.
[/quote]Daino scrolls are commonly sold it seems, but no they don’t have Daino in their name. Most importantly, they’re stupid cheap (to the point they barely cover the Simony cost). So while it might not be a good idea for an FS to rely on them if it’s the person’s first character, Clerics are not a good first character money-wise anyway.
In addition, the scroll works like the skill: it just gives Daino buff to all party members within range. So it’s definitely viable to rely solely on them for non-Krivis builds. Diev1 or Cleric3 can be considered, for example.
It’s true that Krivis1 provides many bonuses other than Daino for a support build though, including useful attributes on Zalciai/Aukuras/Daino, and if it’s a SPR build it can use Zalciai’s crit buff/debuff effectively. Even if all three skills are scrollable, the attributes aren’t, and you need a lot of SPR to use Zalciai’s crit part anyway.
So how are the Daino scrolls called then?
[quote=“rya.reisender, post:38, topic:292988, full:true”]
So how are the Daino scrolls called then?
[/quote]Heard they’re just “scroll” or something. (Blame IMC. I suppose you can tell which scroll is which by the description.) Still, they’re there.
All skill scrolls were named “Scroll”…There’s no way to sort it…u have to look through each one to find it…Like several pages of them…
And most of them were rather low level, such as lv1, which pretty useless…
There werent many high level scrolls in the market…