Tree of Savior Forum

Fixing Paladin's Conversion the easy way

Class and Rank Cleric
#1

So after playing around with conversion though most of the Demon Prison area and realizing that for some reason (probably intentional) a lot of the mobs there do not receive the ‘debuff’ icon when it is cast on them. Probably to add insult to injury the debuff does seem to show up on the non convertible elite mobs. This lead to thinking about some of the major issues with this skill and how it can be fixed.

Major Issue

The main problem with Conversion is the buggy AI and how it interacts in dungeons that have a kill requirement to progress. Things like disappearing mobs and such can be dealt with via just waiting for the CD and converting more.

Solution

The easiest solution, while a bit lazy, is to make the skill function like the Bokor’s Zombify skill. Make the conversion chance proc on a monsters death, if the enemy is converted then spawn a spirit version of the mob as an ally (think blue and semi transparent) shortly after the mobs death. This will prevent already converted mobs AI from breaking due to its target being converted while its attacking them and prevent converted mobs from mucking up kill requirements for dungeons hopefully making it more team friendly. As a bonus the mobs will be blue and semi transparent so being able to differentiate between them and regular enemies will be easier for teams/grinding groups.

#2

I have made a post detailing each of the bugs in the AI I could find here:

I believe that in terms of efforts taken, your solution would take just as much efforts to implement than to fix each of the bugs described in my post.

I also believe we would lose on a bit if we were to make converted mobs AI the same as bokor’s zombies because zombies don’t look for heals when low on hp and they don’t teleport to their masters when they’re far away. They also last through map changes while converted mobs don’t (and really shouldn’t).

I’m not saying your idea is bad, though. I would prefer a simpler and working AI than what we currently have for conversion.

#3

When I said it should be like Zombify I was strictly speaking on how monsters are converted. I did not say that a converted mob should function like a zombie, that would destroy alot of the fun of picking and choosing the mobs. Also zombies do teleport to the bokor if they are far away.

#4

Well but there are big issues with their AI as well… not just the way they are spawned…

#5

do u play bokor? they teleport to you, they have been for months now. and they should chnage maps, whats the poitn f finally summonign a wheelchair zombie (with a super low chance, like 1%) just to have it dissapear when u change maps?

#6

I know zombies teleport to you when you change maps/channels. But if you complete a quest in the same map and hit backspace to teleport to it they used to not teleport with you (unlike conversion mobs). I’m not sure if that’s been changed because it’s been ~2 weeks since I last played one of my bokors.

#7

Its been quite a while ago since zombies teleport to you if they get too far. My bokors 260 now and they have been teleporting to me since I hit bokor 1. But as for your post, the zombies do get teleported to you regardless of whether they are attacking or not if they are too far. They also have a fairly small leash range where they will walk back to you if you get too far and try to target something else after they reach you.

Also, idk if you really want this for your conversion mobs. Its been like that since the ktos merge with zombies bugging out and ignoring enemies. It gets especially bad when mobbing sometimes cuz after a while only 5-6 zombies will be attacking 1 enemy and all the other zombies are ignoring the 5 other enemies wailing on me. The ai then fixes itself when the 1 enemy getting attacked dies but there still seems to be a cap of 5-6 zombies per enemy these days compared to 21 zombies wailing on a single monster from before the merge.

#8

You do notice tat zombies decays away right? while converted mobs last till u dc/change map…both have their pro n cons…the only issues is map area where uneven high/low area which makes both glitches stucked there

Zombie=AA 4ever
converted= AA n skill/buff

If u really want good summon…u have sorc&necro.

U have to weigh the base class if they are to improve all of them. Wiz build for sorcerer/necrosis sacrifice utility for them. Cleric base class already have heal n support to compliment zombie/converted… any circle brings more utility if compared to pure summon class. That’s makes both have different variations n play style.

Seriously, u can go read all class forum n see they all have the mindset tat they want 1build rules all/op from all their complaints about class too weak w/o seeing the class benefit. N not actually spending gold for attributes n said low dmg bla bla.

Imc shud makes a hotfix to makes converted mob Tele to you when u goes too far from them. That’s the serious issues of converted mob instead of wander mindlessly all over

#9

I believe we’re misinterpreting what OP said, he clearly stated that his intention is not to change converted mobs AI but only the way they are converted.

#10

yeah they teleprt when they go offscreen now, an unlinke converted monster will still teleport even if they are fighitn a monster

#11

Yeah my goal was not to change the AI of converted mobs to that of the Bokor zombies, doing that would somewhat remove the novelty of the skill. The idea was to change how mobs are converted to work around what I would consider the biggest issues with them (bugging out when their target is converted and breaking dungeons w/kill walls). I used Bokor’s Zombify spell as an example of a spell mechanic that could ‘fix’ the issues. With Zombify, the target is killed which count towards dungeons/missions with kill requirements as well as it breaks the target of currently converted mobs so they don’t freeze up when their target is converted. I didn’t want to make converted mobs function like zombies, they don’t need to follow through zones or any of that. Sorry if I wasn’t clear on my first post.

Ooh and maybe give the converted mob a paint/transparency change to help party members and others differentiate between a convert and a normal NPC

#12

Hehe…I just hope they make more normal no elite mob with party buff…in a way it’s more beneficial. Zombie n converted mob have too crappy dmg even with the stats transfer passive still is crap W/o high spr build deprotect&zaicai…

Oracle change Pala build can solo till 250 with ease…after that u wanna find those normal mob to change elite n convert is like…hello…where is the normal mobs lol

#13

I believe in one of the recent patches you can no longer convert mobs that have been changed into elites via the oracle skill. What I woud like to see though is being able to convert the elites that are already out there just not as many of them. Maybe something like 1 elite mob counts as 3 converted mobs. So with Conversion lv5 you could have 1 elite and 2 normal mobs max and at 10 you could have 3 elite and 1 norm. Or something to give the skill some love. Feels crumby when you start getting to maps that are just full of elites and you are basically just out a skill.

#14

Well I agree with you but only to a certain point.

See, converted mobs don’t really have the same stats as normal mobs. They take a lot less damage, and deal a lot more damage when they fight with their own monster species. And I mean, without considering the STR/2 damage attribute.

While I think it could be fair having less converted mobs if those are elites (following your suggestion), I also think it’s very hard to judge “how fair” it would be. If you were fighting mobs of the same type, sure it could be fair, but what if you aren’t?

For example, if you could convert elite mobs in a map and brought them to a place where no other elite mobs spawn, you could effectively afk grind having your elite converted mobs kill normal mobs forever (elites are absurdly much stronger than normal mobs later in the game).

I think balancing out this skill is very complicated. The mobs in the 130 dungeon, for example, are not considered elite mobs and thus can be converted. If you convert 5 or more pawndels in that dungeon, they will obliterate everything in their path and almost never die (considering you heal them from time to time). So even with the nerf, Conversion is still quite OP in very (very) specific scenarios. The AI is still annoying, though.

#15

Yeah elite mobs would have to follow the same rules as the normal converts ( disappear on zone or channel change). I think that is the reason the Oracle / Paladin skill interaction was patched, being able to have 5 to 10 non map specific elite mobs was extremely strong and could afk farm with the best of them. Dungeon normal mobs are amazingly strong and fun as hell to convert, have had 5 of those pawndels before the damage is pretty absurd, no matter the changes they make they pretty much need to keep the despawn on zone / channel change.