Tree of Savior Forum

Economy Rigged Against Everyone but the Ultra Rich

Off-Topic
#23

Fair enough.

I know it’s pointless that’s why its in off topic.

I agree that life is harsh especially for the younger people today. We are faced with overpopulation and an Economic system that caters to the established organizations. Working hard alone is not going to be enough to fight for a life worth living. Everyone is working hard, do you really think people aren’t fighting for that music chair? The problem isn’t people aren’t fighting for it, it’s that there isn’t enough chair for everyone.

I’m not suggesting that people should expect an easy life. But I also understand the circumstances that overpopulation + not enough (real) jobs = difficult times for a lot of people.

Trying to get somewhere? Nah, I just don’t buy the BS narrative that get a job > work hard > buy everything you want.

Don’t spew rubbish ideas like “The American Dream” as if it’s a universal truth, when the underlying foundation of that idea is exploitation of 3rd world labor, resources and energy (through economic manipulation and violence, war).

#24

Well if your view is like that then feel free to pursue what you think is best for your life. Happiness of a person is what matters afterall, a person being rich doesn’t mean he/she is happy with the life that they have. It’s the one thing that matters in the sweet/bitter end of this life.

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#25

Is this thread about a 14 year old in the SEA territories who’s angry that his parents don’t give him enough allowance to buy token privileges? What exactly is he suggesting for an alternative?

1 Like
#26

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#27

Very interesting post. This power law distribution looks a lot like income distribution in the real world.

However I don’t think even by increasing factors of being successful it is possible to reduce inequality. We now have streets full of Masters & PHD that still has trouble finding work. Students from Law school unemployed for a year and suing the Law school (lol).

I think fundamentally the monetary system (un-backed fiat currency) concentrates wealth on the hands of the few, due to how certain entities have access to the source of the currency (i.e. Fed reserve / banks). Your x, y, z factors may allow certain people to get closer to the source of money printing but it is not a guarantee.

#28

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

#29

I’ll just leave this here.

https://images-2.discordapp.net/.eJwFwVsOhCAMAMC7cABK5SXehiBBo1JCa_Zjs3ffma965602dYgM3gD2kwvNXbPQzK3qRtTumsfJutADWSSX46ldGGJMydsQvXGrSWl1gMFjxLAEh8Ggtejg7VenT9ejN_X7A-oQIrI.qTfMhN_-CtyPmxyw7WbqRj3dUdg.png

Why is he even playing the game? HELL, can this even be considered playing the game? Beyond pathetic.

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#30

I can see where you’re coming from, those who say “you’ll get what you want as long as you work hard” or “you’re just lazy that’s why you cant get what you want, you have to acquire it through hard work” don’t quite get it. That’s Republican thinking and that’s exactly what Donald Trump would say.

This goes way beyond than just paying $20 or so for an ingame item, it’s a lot deeper.

Some people just aren’t fortunate to have the opportunity to find success no matter how hard they work, that’s just how the world works. Luck always plays a factor.

I’m one of those fortunate enough to be able to afford the items in game (just a heads up so both parties see where I’m coming from).

However, this game is mainly targeting NA as most of the purchases are from there. IMC is a company, and most companies are here to make money. That’s how capitalism works. And even if you’re from NA but are unfortunate enough to not afford it, then all I can say is that it sucks.

The root of the problem doesn’t come from IMC, but how society works. If you really find that unsettling, I would suggest doing something to bring about the change instead of complaining (not trying to bash on you) and get involved with movements that bring the change you want to see.

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#31

someone really knows how the general public world wide is being ripped of =D

The problem is so obvious tho I wonder sometimes why only so few people realize it.

Must be some sort of public mass denial as their psyche wouldnt survive the fact that they are living a lie o.O I mean every person living in 1st world countries ( me included) is currently benefitting from the deaths and exploitation of the 3rd world countries. But “no - we don’t kill people it’s immoral” - sigh most people would be devastated and probly commit suicide if they realized what their livestyle is doing to other people. So they have to lie to themselves in order to function.

although there a few key factors that could easily be changed that cause most of the suffering.

  • Improving social security of old aged people by linking their income to the societies gdp would greatly reduce population growth especially in 3rd world countries ( why is that a good thing? we are fuking 7 billion people currently ravaging the planet for all it’s got… wake the fk up!)

  • interest rates are basically the devils work in a capitalistic system. Why? Because it has nothing to do with natural wealth creation. It absolutely ■■■■■ up the entire monetary system. Rich people get richer by the minute due to this bs mechanic. But what they and most peopel don’t understand. when rich littel jimmy gets born into his rich world and daddy opens up a bank account for him with nice little large sum investment he gets approx one footbal stadium worth of interest per year and now so little jimmy can have his one football stadium per year some thousand idiots have to work for that cause frankly NO MONEY DOESNT grow on trees and NEITHER DOES VALUE!! which is why our money keeps INFLATING.

  • This brings us to the next problem. Our current democracy is a failed concept. Some BS idiot who talks nice gets elected and appointed to be the financial minister or head of economics of the state and then says yeah… interest rates what a great idea… AND EVERY SINGLE MATHEMATICIAN IN THE WORLD PROBABLY FACEPALMED SO HARD THAT THE HIMALAYA CAME TO BIRTH (tru story!)

  • theres… more but my rage is gone

#32

Not complaining here. I just can’t take entitled dudes selling “The American Dream” like it’s universal truth.

The truth to the matter is that there is no solution / change possible within the near term. Society and people are too ingrained in their thinking currently. The only change that will be possible is when reality is forced upon them.

With the constraints in fossil energy, rampant destruction of our ecosystem and a really risky economic game, it won’t be forever before this reality is forced upon us.

@andreasberger86

The reason for this mass denial is because of a distorted understanding of our world. Everyone wants to live a richer life without working for it - and they can do it currently with the monetary system. But you can’t get things (by nature’s law) without putting effort, unless the effort isn’t yours. Our monetary system allows certain people to live this life at the cost of many many others people.

And why would so many people accept being exploited? Because they think they have the same chance to achieve that same position (a lie). That’s what the “American Dream” is all about, a system of belief to keep most deceived so they keep getting screwed.

Like our wonderful friend @Vonleo here that thinks he can get out of this problem by working harder.

While reforming is good… I don’t think any reform is going to fix the fundamental problems in modern human culture / belief. Concepts like:

  • you can’t really own things, it all belongs to nature
  • we can’t survive without intact biosphere, i.e myth that we can colonize space in the near future
  • Human ingenuity / technological progress will solve all problems, when we solved most our problems with creative use of fossil fuels.

Will not change without the destruction of the existing belief system first.

We are already too late to that 2C global warming target. In order to even come close to reaching that goal, ALL OF US have to reduce our carbon footprint by half NOW. That means all of us have to:

  • drive half the distance to work
  • drive half a car (car pool)
  • replace all your gadgets at twice the length of their useful time
  • Buy food from half the distance from their source of production
  • Hot showers at half the duration
  • Use half the electricity
  • Regrow our lost forestry
  • Many other halves on luxury that we take for granted

The problem is that all these denotes a contraction of the economy, not expansion. But our economy is structured to require exponential growth or collapses (% interest rates). This means that it will never be adopted by the masses unless the masses suddenly start doing things not for currency (colloquially “money”), but for doing “the right thing”. When was the last time that happened…

I won’t even go into our energy problems here, but we all know fossil fuels can’t last forever. What do we do then? We are not even close to being able to power ourselves through renewables.

In the end, it really is just because there’s too damn many of us. Humans are Apex Species and like all Apex species, we require a great deal from our ecology to sustain us. That means that the world was never meant to support this many human kinds. We’ve mainly become so overpopulated by compromising on our diets and substitution of a lot of things with fossil energy.

Reform isn’t going to help. There isn’t a solution, because we are facing a predicament that short of a miracle, will never be “solved” the way we hope. It will be solved by Mother natures term, if you’ve done biology, you’ll know what I mean.

1 Like
#33

Hmm I havent replied to this thread in three days i actually forgot about this thread until you mentioned my name and linked me.

Let me say this for the last time so your brain can understand it

If 18 dollars a month is too much to get a token then it means you just dont have the money for it tough luck. If you are under the age of 18 or whatever the law it is to get a credit card tough luck you should not be able to purchase anything online anyways with a credit card because you are too young.

Can’t find a job? Well you better start doing something else then complain about an online game that is for ENTERTAINMENT purposes because if 18 dollars a month is too much for you I think Life > gaming.

That is all i wanted to point across I did not want to get into all this political BS or whatever it is you are getting into so STOP MENTIONING ME IN THIS THREAD cause quite frankly our views are different and in the end I still DONT GIVE A FLYING HOO HA what you think.

Oh and by the way I am not American quit trying to generalize all Americans because they have a different view then you do.

So again stop mentioning me in this thread you basically have a thread made attacking me for my VIEWS and OPINIONS on something.

If you want to continue this talk then leave me out of it and stop linking me peace out!

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#34

By not living in the USA / NATO world. Thanks to their economic oppression half of the world do not make an equivalent of $2 per day.

Nope. The root of the problem is self-entitled people like you.

Also synonymous with Jobs that don’t pay well.

One day it’ll be tough luck for you too :slight_smile:

Irrelevant argument.

Your opinion of what is more important applies to yourself only. Don’t force your mentality down on other people. If one cannot find a job, why is it necessary to find one? Because people should be exploited at minimum wage??

Wow I can’t have entertainment unless I have job and money. You’re brushing really close to supporting slavery.

You can certainly try @Vonleo. :wink:

So scared, so fearful about a discussion. Keep hiding in your cave. Not sure why you think a discussion about reality is political.

Lol that’s your own assumption. Don’t accuse me of something I didn’t do.

Nope. Read title of thread. The thread is made to attack the general belief on “The American Dream”. Also what do you expect when you make bold claims as the first 3 quotes in this post.

there’s something called Do it yourself.

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#35

Problem does come from them. Earning is fine, but they crossed the line. There’s too many restrictions, too much of a p2w for those who pay to lift those restrictions.

This model is not necessary for the game to sustain itself. Instead of slamming us with restrictions, why didn’t they make 40 premium costumes and 40 premium hairstyles for the release? cool masks and hats? extra face cosmetics? Anything?

Instead of just 1 costume per class and gender, and handful of premium hairstyles.

Because cosmetics SHOULD run this game, not forced p2w VIP status.

It’s not even about the money, p2w will always ruin a game, always. Even paying players know this and i’m sure a lot of them would prefer it if it wasn’t like this.

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#36

I so agree with this. When I opened the TP shop I was expecting a “wow” so much things to buy :heart_eyes: but… then. eh. wait… just 1 for me to try out???

#37

Yep, disappointing to say the least.

#38

I like how you nit pick everything and most of your responses make no damn sense i have already flagged this thread for verbal abuse as i have already mentioned not to link me to this thread and said it nicely too now im just out right telling you to F U C K O F F

if you want to do this the childish way so can i

#39

Lol verbal abuse. Challenging your worldview is verbal abuse now huh. :joy:

As for staying out of the thread:

  1. you don’t have to reply
  2. you can mute the thread

Can’t figure out how to do that? Yea I didn’t think so too.

Resorting to vulgar words to bolster your broken arguments now? :laughing:

Is that how you deal with information that doesn’t agree with you? To clasp you hands over your ears pretending you can’t hear them? Pretty

huh? :wink:

#40

No I said I do not care about this thread but you still insist to link me towards it maybe you should do yourself the favor if you don’t want this thread to be locked and keep to the topic instead of linking me and taking jabs at me every chance you get because I could just as easily spam this thread with crap that does not belong to shut it down so again who is the one thats childish? I also said we both don’t see eye to eye on this subject so whatever we say to each other wont do anything but you insist on trying to make an argument when in the end I really don’t give a ■■■■.

#41

But so mad. I don’t know why you’re so mad on something you claim to:

Contradiction much? :confused: Seems like you are suffering from cognitive dissonance there.

Also:

Run along now, with your tails in between your legs.

#42

naw i think you can ■■■■ right off see the one being a child is you looking at your replies like these whats funny is i have not seen not one mention on my last post i posted here because you know im right so maybe you can “run along with your tail between your legs”