Tree of Savior Forum

Doppelsoldner: go big or go home

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

Before the mechanics rework I used to be a happy doppelsoldner who was happy with his little DoV and hurricane that could. Getting 150% extra damage and becoming a blender of Doom was pretty fun and getting to maul mobs with nice ASPD ala old RO was all I needed. Now however, I noticed something really worrysome for me.

Since the very moment I set my eyes on ToS, I´ve wanted to be that out-of-place one-handed spear doppel. DoV and Cyclone where my go-to skills. What baffled me after the changes was not so much the Cyclone nerf but the DoV change… tho I am inclined to call it nerf as well.

From giving 150% extra damage at lvl 15 (and after properly stacking it up) now it only gives a lousy 33%. Sure the damage taken is only 19% now, but really… come on…

But the point of my thread is not that. The point of this thread is… How viable you guys see pulling either a Doppel C1 or C2? To me it looks like you either go Doppel C3 or skip the class completelly. DoV scales bad on C1 and all the skills you get on C2 only get reall work well till C3 when you get their power-spike attributes.

I am bummed because I still feel cyclone could be a skill worth going for… being multi-hit with status resistance and minor movement capabilities, it works wonders both for PVE (clearing mobs) and PVP (doing ok damage but most importantly, chain-stunning with restrain). However, the rest of the skills from both C1 and C2 are extremelly lackluster without C3 extra skill-points and attributes. Is cyclone a class-seller still or is doppelsolder now a “go big or go home class”?

#2

It’s actually hard to tell how much better or worse DoV is now.

Whereas old DoV straight up increased your Attack in the F2 window, new DoV is a skill modifier of the same kind like Cleave’s slash bonus and all that. They’re completely different kinds of damage boosts so their values being so different may not necessarily mean it’s a straight up nerf. You also don’t need to get hit on purpose to stack it or anything anymore.

Cyclone is definitely just a filler skill now though. I’d say yeah, doppel is go c3 or don’t go it at all.

#3

I like the new dov more then the old one.

#4

You are wrong, totally wrong. Deeds of Valor used to boost your Physical Attack before patch by X% amount. After patch DoV boosts your damage output by X% amount. So that’s completely different than you think.
Cyclone sucks now and it’s not worth more than 1 point and if i was you i would not use it, due to its current “stuck in place” bug that can get you killed if you’re facing an ET boss and 15 adds on you or even on PvP if there’s ground aoe and you’re stuck.
And yeah, it’s C3 or don’t take Doppel, some Dragoons used to pick doppel on R6 but it’s pretty worthless now. Main skill of Doppel is Zornhau and Redel with their respective attributes. Redel wins by far if your Physical attack goes higher due to the multi hit count.
Although if you’re a Doppel C3 but your weapon sucks, you will only see a difference on Zornhau rather than Redel, due to your physical attack being crappy. Zornhau has a 1,000%+ multiplier while Redel only300% but multi hits that get better with weapon enhancement and transcendence.
It’s easy to reach 555k cap with Zornhau, so work boosting your Redel’s damage to 555k per hit, somehow lol.
Hope i cleared some of your doubts.

#5

Zornhau with the attribute isn´t a multihit right?

#6

Looks to be a fake multi hit. I’ve made some tests comparing Zornhau and Redel’s damage on different bosses. Zornhau gets “stuck” at 555k while Redel can hit 1M+ if your physical attack is higher.

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#7

Doppel c3 not really that broken. The c2 skills are way stronger now. It is fine for u to skip

#8

err no, C3 is what make those C2 skills super strong, each getting 100% or more damage increases from C3 attribute, not to mention another +slash debuff to use.

#9

What about Concentrate/gungh oh? What of those 2 you suggest to max?

#10

Concentrate scales much better with DEX, while Gung ho scales with STR. I would use Gung ho due to direct physical attack added to the formula. 300 Physical attack is alot if we use skills with high percentage factor like Zornhau.
Although im not using any of them cause my stats are somewhat balanced so they don’t make a big difference but wasting buff slots.

#11

I will take back what i said about Zornhau. Tested Zornhau at lvl 10 with 90% attributes, and now im hitting Lavenzard on the 290dg for 900k rounded. So it’s definitely not capped at 555k. My apologize.

#12

got confused by that, what does that mean zornhau is a true multi? or it only becomes true multi once you take the deep cut attribute?

#13

Despite being in the first row of buffs, apparently gungho does not enter the count.
Limited: "Subject to buffs count limits"
https://tos.neet.tv/skills/10003 Gungho (Limited=False)
https://tos.neet.tv/skills/10004 Concentrate (Limited=True)
Btw the same applies to Deeds of Valor
https://tos.neet.tv/skills/11001 Deeds of Valor (Limited=False)

#14

Zornhau with “Deep Cut” is definitely fake multihit. Wether or not “Fake” multihits are able to go past the damage cap, I don’t know, maybe they do have a good side to them after all if that’s the case.

The fact remains it only gains concentrate/element damage etc once, and it’s an all-or-nothing crit.

#15

Well, that’s going to depend on your build actually, I’m using doppel c1, and it’s pretty good for me, but it’s because I’m corsair c3, so the doppel c1 is just a filler class because there is nothing better for corsair, the devs just didn’t make anything for ppl with corsair to follow with, ppl might say fencer, yeah, but what if i don’t want to use rapier? and fencer at c1 only isn’t really good, also shinobi, just no, none of corsair’s skills are usable with shinobi clones.
So about Deeds of Valor, when I’m with active I can clearly see that I’m doing more damage, I don’t see why to complain about the skill.
Cyclone is also broken, even my corsair skills there is none that compare to cyclone in damage.
I don’t know what you guys were expecting if you’re thinking those skills are weak, but what I see is they are pretty strong compared to other classes skills.

#16

To put the multihit stuff to rest, from my modifier thread :

Damage modifiers for doppel for those interested :

[quote=“EternalDream, post:1, topic:360169”]

Doppelsoeldner

  • Deeds of Valor :
    +5% [+ (Skill Level - 1) * 2]

  • Zucken :
    +25% on Shock status

  • Zwerchhau :
    +80% for Slash attacks, except on Plate armour

  • Sturtzhau :
    +50%

  • Zornhau “Deep Cut” Attribute :
    +100% [* Attribute Level]

  • Zucken “Multicut” Attribute :
    +100%

  • Redel “Multicut” Attribute :
    +180%[/quote]

#17

Cyclone is still very good, especially with Restrain.

VERY high AoE attack ratio and is a nice follow-up after Bash -> Punish because you ban Bash mobs into place, Punish, then Cyclone once to finish them off if they didn’t die from Punish Earthquake.

Even with just Doppel C1 and Sword C1 with Bash C3, you can Bash mobs into place to Cyclone them, so even annoying PvE Archers and Mages can be grouped up and AoE’d down.

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