We need a Terror Knight and also it would be cool to see swordsman class using 2 handed blunts
Knight is pretty boring imo. Ragnarok did a good job with Knight, but most RPGs did a really bad job with their Knights, resulting in disastrous Classes, most of the times not even mountedâŠ
I think TOS should continue to focus on unique Classes with unique skills and gameplay mechanics.
They just have to make them all useful and balance power better with support capabilities (e.g. introducing a mechanic that buff Classes recieve a better buff effect from their skills than their party members to supplement the lack of attack power; e.g. like Swift Step that grants the Archer critrate via attribute while the party members only get the Evasion boost) so that certain Classes/builds arenât doomed to be dead last damagewise, ineffective in farming or participating in advanced content like ET.
And of course Class balance needs a better focus so that all equal Ranks deal ~ equal base damage and the damage differences only spawn/are created by combining buffs and debuffs from other Ranks&Classes.
Itâs just stupid that certain Ranks/Classes are way more effective than others, especially if we look at Archer and Swordsman.
If we have red,green,purple and golden Classes, those should set the differences, not the base Class that makes a C3 Doppelsoeldner stronger than a C3 Druid just because heâs a Swordsman (just judging from appearance, the Lycanthrop surely is several times stronger than the puny Swordsman, 1 hit of his claws would gut or dismember the Swordsman).
But yeah, even though Clerics are in a more favorable spot in TOS than in other RPGs, the balance isnât nearly as good as it should be.
Too many green Classes with bad damage skills and bad utility, armor & weapons being more significant than certain types of buffs (especially after transcendence) and less utility ( less monsters affect you with status ailments/debuffs, buffs generally worse than Wizard buffs).
Letâs hope that the future patches bridge the difference in damage between Archer/Swordsman and Cleric and give more unique features/abilities to each Class instead of just throwing support skills at one and just damage skills at another Class.
Bokor is a good example how to balance damage and buffs, should be apllied to ± every Archer and Swordsman Class (less damage skills, more buffs&debuffs; please some to share with the party so that Sworsman and Archer arenât selfish prick Classes anymore that just take and give nothing to ensure theyâre number 1 and/or 2 at boss rankings)
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Myrmidon/Berserker would also be a welcome Swordsman class, but I agree I think Samurai should also be introduced, even as a hidden class.
Your posts make me laugh too hard hahaâŠSo much cleric bias
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We need rank 9 skills and classes names and gifs
My prediciton
Wizard:
Mimic
Onmyouji
Swordsman:
Luchador
Matador
Cleric:
Shepherd
Lama
Archer:
Peid Piper
Puppeteer
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Actually thatâs not biased at all, itâs experienced-based realization of the truth behind the current state of the game.
Or can you tell me why support Clerics are important if they only contribute a few points of damage with both their attacks and buffs and the game is basically just hack&slay atm? Those without casttime and elongated animations just throw out their damage skills one after another, with useful debuffs&buffs to further enhance their damage.
Survivability is only required at low-tier gear progression stages, but not later on as you can compensate for lousy attack stats easily with the right equipment.
However, you canât compensate for the lost skill% with the buffs given in the game.
Why is there even a boss ranking if some Classes are seemingly only supporters? Does it feel good to see that youâre dead last every time just because your Class is badly balanced?
All in all the game is pretty much no fun if all the good spoils go to someone else and youâre âjust the Healer/Ressurecter/Bufferâ. Cooperation should go both ways, not just one way where one recieves all the time while the other one has to give everytime, even if he doesnât want to.
And one who just deals damage is not cooperative at all.
In fact,that one is a nuisiance, because heâs an egoistic & parasitic existance (he leeches off of the other people who build their characters through hardships and investments just to come out at the top every time without any real achievements because of missing and broken balance).
If everyone had ~ equal strengh, you can easily build parties as you like it, one with more utility, one with more survivability, one with more damage.
ATM you canât, because meta-rangers and -teams will be more effective than non-metas, making you waste time and/or even other ressources in the process (+ itâs hard to see people who progress on their âsupportersâ, as their mains are usually damagedealers, so itâs hard to find anyone to play with in non-meta settings).
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In any game will have meta builds that are clearly superior than the others, itâs impossible to make a game where everyone is equal.
And Cleric is the best class tree in the game, they not only support and heal but cause the same if not more damage than the Archer and Swordman tree even in a support build.
In a game with multiple players you want to gather specialized builds to do a specific purpose. Even if you manage to make everyone have damage and utility, people will simply pick the best one.
Itâs not fair to have classes that are straight up bad, but why are you talking about builds as if itâs possible to make a system where every build is equal? If your class circles donât work that well together, then your build should suck.
But Doppel is a class meant for only damage, while Druid has utility (invuln, transformations, change monster typing) and damageâŠWhy would it be fair for them to deal equal damage when Druid can heal himself, has 100% uptime of pain-barrier-like effects, and invuln? Not to mention Swordsman has fewer circles to choose for utility building up to doppel, while Druid can take things like Dievdirbys or Priest to further supplement their buildâs utility.
Youâre comparing apples to oranges.
Do you even play SM or Archer? You do realize that support classes exist for them, right? Corsair, Pelt, Falconer⊠They need to improve the support capability of some of these classes (like in the case of corsair), but stop putting all SM and Archers under the same umbrella and calling them selfish, parasitic DPSâers, because youâre really just making yourself sound stupid.
Storm Calling --> +50% damage, Kagura Dance w/ Divine Might --> +60% Damage that applies after the Storm Calling multiplier so itâs more like +90% Damage. If you think these buffs add just âa few points of damage,â youâre wrong.
Damage is also not everything. Support clerics can also offer SURVIVABILITY and UTILITY. Heals, invuln, resurrection, CD reduction, enemy silencing, status resistanceâŠthe realm of support goes far beyond just adding damage to attacks.
You said in a previous post that Archers and Swordsmen are useless, and everyone should be clearing solmiki in a full (or almost full) cleric party, and now youâre saying that support clerics are useless while Archers and Swordsmen are being âselfishâ because they can do high damage?
Try running solmiki without a cleric? Isnât this statement backwards too, since potions literally make survivability a cakewalk at lower levels. Also take a look at the more difficult world bosses, and you will see plenty of people dying.
You literally said in a previous post that âSwordsmen and Archers have to be healed and safety zoned, which makes partying with them a hassleâ when doing ET, so donât go back on your word and claim survivability is not an issue endgame.
Maybe you should realize the ranking is based on damage, and nothing else. Why on earth would a supporter need to see themselves dealing top DPS to be satisfied with their role in the party? If you really feel that bad about getting a little number 4 pop on your head after killing a boss, maybe you should gear up a DPS character?
Fun is subjective, and plenty of people find playing full support fun. And everyone in the party gets the rewards for most content, so idk where you get this notion of âall the good spoils going to someone else.â
If you donât enjoy being full support, then why donât you invest in DPS circles??? After all, Cleric is already one of the most self-sufficient classes in the gameâŠ
When DPSâers clear solmiki, is it just them that gets the cubes/frags?
If theyâre in your party, then that means you guys are working on trying to clear the same PvE content. If they do good damage, and youâre amplifying this, then you guys are literally working together to achieve the same end-goal. One could say this is the definition of cooperation.
But theyâre the one thatâs actually killing things so you can move forward?
And this is where I find out you have some kind of inferiority complex just because your oh-so-precious cleric doesnât come out on top every time when it comes to damageâŠAre you really calling DPSâers parasitic just because they appreciate the support from supporters? Isnât the whole point of investing into support circles so you can help others in your party??? Why would you call the very people your build is intended to support leeches?
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dang what do you have against clerics lol?
first of all, dont bring up the pain barrier of druid c3 bcuz every single swordsman build gets access to pain barrier and theres monster cards that allow pain barir now too. and druid c3 is bad damage as well, like a fraction of doppels damage.
and i dont know about anyone else but id take a chrono3 over ANY cleric build any day, the only good cleric support is preist3, the other classes are mostly just the same skills but with different animations, " invinicibility, or damage increase" and they arent even needed as invincibiliy is already avaliable at cleric c1. and storm calling is a short duration, id take chronomancer anyday over a few sec of +50% melee damage only. and kagura drains your sp like crazy and has a high cooldown as well.
Nothing. I never said I had anything against them, and I play cleric. It just bothers me when someone makes illogical and somewhat offensive arguments.
For base swordsmen, itâs not 100% uptime. For Druid3 it is. I wasnât basing my whole argument on the pain barrier aspect of druid either, so donât get so nitpicky. The new card system has not yet come to iTOS, and we have yet to know if grazing golem card will remain the same by the time we get it.
The whole point of what I was trying to say was that utility and damage should be balanced together, not every red class should automatically get equal damage when certain classes have more access to utility skills or lower rank circles with utility than others.
So many in the forums have expressed that chrono is rather lackluster in world boss compared to some of the other support options. You also have 5 slots in a party for a reason, you never see people in solmiki saying âalright, we can only choose the healer or the chrono, letâs make a vote and choose only oneââŠ
Just because chrono is good does NOT mean that cleric support is obsolete.
Letâs also not forget that classes should have synergy with each other, and itâs a beautiful thing that the game lets you have both cleric and wizard in the same party since you can have a Dievdirbys reducing the cd and casting divine might to make a Chronomancerâs pass even better.
Yes, because an immobile square on the ground makes other invincibility skills obsolete, even when the other skills can offer bigger aoe, longer duration, shorter cd, or allow you to move around.
If youâd just said, âharder content could be made to make the invincibility skills more valuable,â Iâd agree with you.
But its cd is also short (19 seconds with laima, only 24 secs without, and can be used with Pass to use back to back). Just time the skill with your partyâs burstâŠitâs definitely a strong support skill.
Use an SP potâŠIâve never had a situation where I couldnât use Kagura when I wanted because of SP. Long CD is necessary because itâs an incredibly strong support skill. We need more skills with high rewards but drawbacks to balance it like kagura, if you ask me.
Pass is long CD too, but you never mention that?
8 Seconds of Storm Calling + Kagura Dance will increase your DPSâs damage over double, and pretty much allow them to melt whatever theyâre fighting, so why are we talking about this. Why not talk about the things that need improvement instead?
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Both Storm Calling and Kagura only work with melee attacks. If youâre not a Swordsman, Melee Cleric build or a Hackapella/Sapper(maybe Falconer?), you donât benefit from those buffs at all. If your party has these buffs but noone to utilize them,theyâre naught. You canât just argue with these % boosts that donât affect the majority of Classes ingame as if they make you a god.
Damage is everything in the end. Survivability only lets you drag out fights, but you wonât advance without damage. In fact,youâll even time out if you donât finish the run in time (60 minutes) afaik. There is no boss that will self destruct or slowly drain away his own health to use strong attacks.
Of course itâs important to survive, but for that you just need two things: high effective HP and high potion recovery values.
High effective HP are the HP you have combined with your defence, looking at how many hits youâre able to survive. As TOS has a log function on damage calculation, thereâs a certain threshold where stacking more defence becomes less and less effective. If youâve got enough HP recovery value via CON and card boni, you can easily last for long times.
Squire food, Aukuras and Restoration also allow you to recover high amounts of HP naturally without any need for healers.
Also, I stated:
which holds true as with the upcoming defence buff of gears, it will be easy to stack 4-5k def/mdef with the right tier of gears. As the devs stated, it should become more important/have more impact to upgrade&transcend plate&cloth armor + shields.
Once you reach a full +6 - +11 stage 3-5 transcended 315 rare gear set, youâll rarely ever die if youâve got a balanced build with a decent amount of CON.
Defensive buffs like Swell Right Arm and Aspersion got also improved, letting you experience ~ 1000-2000 additional defence in combination.
The people who die at world bosses are mostly people with bad gear or stat allocation. You canât expect someone with no gear and/or no CON to survive attacks of 20-30k damage(most 330 chars donât even have more than 30k HP unless theyâre Swordsmen or Clerics). Also, with all that lag due to the bad client and ruckus around the boss, itâs pretty hard to avoid attacks & pot at the right times.
Also, we donât have the defence buffs yet, so donât expect many people to actually go and transcend their armor atm. After we get the update, it will be far less common on people with decent gear.
On the previous post: That was before I knew of the new changes of armor values.
With the current values on non-transcended gears (and the lack of people who put 7*/8* yellow&blue gems in their top/bottom/shoes), they have a hard time, because their average defence is a lot lower than the new average on a well-rounded Solmiki party with the right&transcended equipment.
You compensate for the gear with Heal & buffs or compensate the Heal & buffs with gear now. It might not be that strong of an impact yet, but since weâre discussing Rank 9, if this progression continues, there will be less and less need for Clerics if their damage is below average.
I was asking why there is a DPS-inducing system in the first place. In RO you had the MVP mechanic, but here? You get a shiny golden 1 while the 4th and 5th feel pretty bad for being useless. Even Dragon Nest didnât have such a system until recently (93 cap), but at least you can see your overall damage. Here you just feel bad because of the 5.
Also, DPS is the worst way to try to get a high ranking. You need high burst damage, otherwise you will lose out if the enemy dies too fast.
Itâs actually about the buffs. Some Classes are only self-buffers, so they donât share the majority of buffs. Even Dragon Nest learned that the buff stacking mechanics were a bad idea, so they made most buffs self-buffs.
However, Clerics are enforced to buff others here in TOS, making them even less efficient because they have all those wasted seconds with setting up buff-&debuff-instances, buffing, debuffing with skills and using Heals every now and then.
If you play a Cleric, you have to set up a lot of things to be more efficient, e.g. cast Divine Might, place a Laima statue, a Safety Zone (until GG card becomes useful that is), spam your magic circle attacks and Heal on the enemy and wait/autoattack/buff.
During that unreduceable setup time, the other party members already benefited from your Divine Might, Laima, your Safety Zone and maybe some stray leftover Heal tiles on the ground while just bashing the hell out of the monsters.
Meanwhile, most of their buffs are cast extremely fast and only selfbuffs, so they get to hit a lot better and have an advantage.
This advantage makes it easier to win the DPS race of non-elite field bosses (only 5 players get a cube) and elite field bosses (5 top parties get a cube), and it wouldnât surprise me if parties would be more and more DPS-focused to secure the cubes.
Cooperation again was meant in a term that both sides benefit from all buffs and debuffs likewise. If most buffs are only self-buffs, they donât cooperate, theyâre just recieving (or at least recieve a lot more than the other side).
Dealing damage isnât considered as cooperation as this is the primary goal anyway.
Or do you think those DPS Classes would forfeit their spoils for the sake of the supporters/ would be pleased if they recieved more than them for their hard work?
I donât think so. Players who play damagedealers play them exactly because of this reason, they donât want to share and they donât want to support.
Damage dealing is something everyone can do after all in these games.
No,this is a logic conclusion. Those who benefit by taking advantage of others but giving nothing in return are called parasites in nature. Symbiotic are only the relationships where one gives something for something else in return. I donât really see that return anywhere if youâre focused on dealing the most damage.
You yourself have stated it before:
While the support capabilities of these Classes are pretty limited (Corsair buffs missile damage & looting chance; FalconerC3 increases AoE damage every 35 seconds, Peltasta aggros monsters), they are there, however, what about the builds without these Classes?
Shouldnât the builds include at least one of these Classes to help with some support?
And yeah, I have a Squire and a Falconer, so I played Swordsman and Archer. I always felt like a parasite because I couldnât contribute anything aside from a faster killing time and the EXP bonus when running a dungeon while leveling.
Itâs pretty gruesome actually, so I used my skill, dispellers and pots to avoid being a hassle.
There is no offense in my words, itâs just a rational conclusion of what I percieve while playing the game Oo
nuisance does not only serve as an insult, it also has the meaning of being a serious deficit, in this case of the game, because one character can always be on the recieving end while having the easiest time to breeze through all the leveling stuff while the other side that is part of his current late-game success has a harder time because they lack whatâs required most :damage.
Parasitic describes the role in the society. They donât give, they only recieve. And they recieve a lot throughout the games progress.
Anyway, thereâs no point in arguing any further if you canât understand that my concern was about the way the game is currently headed with the upcoming updates.
I donât hate other Classes, in fact I have a whole roster over at RO of all different Classes, because they all serve a purpose besides of dealing damage and support each other.
At TOS Iâm more and more concerned about the developement and the enforced gameplay meta of damage or nothing. Tactic gameplay dies, whaling becomes more and more impactful and certain Classes are left for dead for a felt eternity.
Good thing my Token runs out in two days, time for a long long break.
Stating the obviousâŠThatâs why you build structured parties. If you want to be more general support, you can do that too as a cleric. Even wizard supports have classes they benefit more than others.
Did I ever say that they make clerics gods? I was saying that certain skills in clericâs arsenal are potent support tools. Please donât put words in my mouth.
How about you say Clerics need more support for magic, or something along those lines instead of throwing out the lie of âcleric support so useless, they only give a few points of damageâ.
This adds nothing to your argument, youâre just stating the obvious. Of course things donât kill themselves, but this doesnât mean the only way to provide support is through increasing damageâŠ
I invite you to do a full 40F solmiki without a healer, with that gear. Please record a video and I will apologize for questioning you. Also, the majority of players are certainly not transcending their armor 3-5, so how can you say healing support is not needed when most players donât even have the kind of defense youâre saying they need to not need a healer?
You literally said healing and safety zone is needed in a previous post, and now youâre saying itâs irrelevant endgame. Do I need to quote you?
Clerics arenât the only class that require setupâŠ
Shinobi has to time his clones casting before bursting, Elememes have to maintain their buffs (quick cast, invocation, surespell)(and do things like cast rain before electrocute), etcâŠ
Also your example is lame because Divine Might doesnât take that long to cast, can be casted before a boss spawns, and lasts for a few spellsâŠLaima can also be easily casted before a fight, and it will stay on the field for a long time.
Honestly, taking away all the setup and making everything baseline would make the game more boring. If you wanted to say DPS classes should require more setups, then why donât you just say that instead of beating around the bush.
The field bosses only giving 5 players cube based on DPS is an actual flaw that screws over supports.
World bosses, however, isnâtâŠiirc, isnât the top party DPS based on only the highest DPS in the party, not the overall DPS of the whole party? Wouldnât that mean having multiple DPSers and now support is worse than having a single DPSer (or two) with more support is better to ensure top party DPS?
Congratulations, you took a course in biology (and somehow feel the need to apply biology terms outside of biology, and incorrectly too).
First of all, your definition of parasitism is missing a crucial component. Parasites benefit at the expense of their host. In a party (except in the case of field bosses, which I already said is a flawed system), the support is not hurt at all by DPSâers doing their job. Nor are they hurt by DPSâers not being able to buff them, since supports are built to support rather than damage.
In fact, the support is actually benefiting from the DPSâers geting stronger (faster clears, world boss cube drop, faster farming, etcâŠ), so you could say they are supporting for their own benefit just as much as they are supporting for the sake of the DPSâer. A true parasite would just be someone who adds nothing to the party (neither support nor DPS), and receives rewards at the cost of the party (lower party DPS since they werenât helped by that party member)
Second of all, your definition of symbiosis is flat out wrong. Symbiosis is just a close biological relationship between organisms. Parasitism is a type of symbiosis. The word you seem to be looking for is mutualism.
Nuisance, egoistic, parasitic, leech, useless, deaths per second are all words you used to describe swordsmen and/or archers.
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Nope, probably itâll be waaay more P2W than itâs now⊠not that I care⊠
p2w for ever! Also, what is up with these people typing in essays as responses.
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They are taking the game more seriously than the developers themselvesâŠ
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Judging by what we have now, thereâs a high chance that more P2W is coming.
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pff.
Id take all.
At least when I argue about a class, I totally have experience playing to 330 of any, if not most of them.
Is solmiki runs even possible without a priest
I just hope Musketeer will get good Circle 3 skill(s) 
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