being realistic, arrow stronger than sword, magic? aaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
Youāve already been ripped to shreds so I can only assume (hope) you were joking with this. But to address a real point.
No, warriors and melee dps in other MMOs are not imbalanced. You know how other MMOs make melee dps viable? because you have to stand in freaking melee to do damage. Itās a risk/reward thing. Every single other MMO Iāve played has managed to find this balance and well. All they had to do was:
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Have a rogue/thief class that did more damage than anyone, but was generally the squishiest of everyone. Again, risk/reward you do the most damage but are in melee with low defense and therefore have a much better chance of dying.
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Have a warrior class that could spec for DPS. Generally, they still did the lowest dps or didnāt have potential to be top DPS, but they were still VIABLE. They had much less hp and defense than their tank counterpart if you specced for DPS but if you specced and geared for DPS, you did enough to justify taking a DPS slot, which cannot be said for this game, at all. And thatās the point OP hit on. No one is asking for unkillable dps machines. People want warriors like literally every single other MMO out there for the last 10 years. A class that can do comparable damage to an archer and mage (without as much top-end potential) at the cost of reduced HP and Def.
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Yea, maybe I was thinking in a one-way streak here, iām bias when itās finally have a game that can give archers a slot to perform, and itās been so long since iāve last heard āLFM Archer onlyā in shout so yeaā¦I have no excuses.
Itās still in development, the damage penalty from CBT still takes a toll on me thou, it was so bad, archers didnāt have enough damage to compare to anyone at that point, now it is, so iām a bit defensive when it comes to lowering its damage, even if just in comparison
And we do have a rogue/thief class, its name is literally Rogue, in the Archer path. I donāt understand your point here, like, a character that uses a dagger from the beginning?
Well, swordman classes still have a viable path for being a hard DPS with risk/reward like you said, itās Doppelsoeldner.
But true, even I have to admit that being a swordman is not as easy as other MMO in this game. To optimize damage you need to understand your skill type and the enemyās armor type, have a specific skill rotation and adjust to situation. Personally I like that, but a bit higher base dmg for swordie couldnāt hurt
Or neft down wizard, buff up clerics, IDK, magic damage in this game is pretty broken -_-
I donāt think anyone is asking for nerfs to archer and wizard damage (at least not the majority of players). Most want swordsmen to be able to do comparable damage because right now, for ET, how many parties would willing take a Doppelsoeldner without rank 1 Pelsata? The biggest issue is that swordsmen endgame are so one dimensional at the moment, all anyone cares about is that they have at least one rank in a tank circle so they can spam aoe taunt. Thatās it.
Yea but is that really a problem thouā¦?
Pel is a rank 2 class, you only sacrifice circle 2 swordman (which mostly for PvP) or an early circle in Highlander? IDK, iām not a pure swordman player (obviously), is taking a rank in Pel taking that much of a toll in the long run?
Adding to server location: SA issue.
400+ ping wish QS or Monk makes the game barely playable.
PS: Please, donāt start with the āur c0untry camt run a proepr servr kappaā Discussion. Weāre not speaking about Brazil only. SA has many other countries and lots of other games physical servers are hosted here just fine.
HI toan_nvd93,
As you said, you are not really a swordsmen player (and possibly not in highest end areaās? Iām not sure.). To answer your question - Yes, forcing circle 2 pelt or a circle of it anywhere is a huge problem, It makes the tree a 6 class tree when the other 3 base classes are 7 class treeās (not that simple though). It means a lot of interesting and fun looking builds become unviable because we are a rank short in completing them. (Sword3>Hop3>Shinobi is potentially our highest dps class but cannot be run anything but solo).
To reply to your comment about Doppelsoeldner, even played perfectly with the best possible stats, gemming and gear, when compared to any of the common wizard and archer DPS, they are still over 200% behind in damage potential (thats a low estimate) and thats in a static, perfect dps conditions. In a real gameplay situation it is much worse, not only would they be expected to taunt, but getting hit by more than 1 attack from anything will generally kill you. Can you really say that is viable or fair for melee players? When wizards and clerics can sit back with full CON and still out dps them by over 2x and be more tanky and survivable.
Hope that helps clear it up for you since you have not played one or possibly not seen many at a high level (because they are impossible to use effectively as anything but a taunt and kite).
EDIT*
Im sure no one wants to see arches weaker (My favourite character is one) and wants them to still be the top dps with wizards, but swordsmen dps choices (Doppel and Dragoon) need to be able to compete fairly - even if its slightly lower dps than the other classes. As it stands 1 wizard or right spec archer is worth 3 or more swordsmen in most content and has no downtime, while the swordsmen would rest for minutes after each encounter.
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Thank you for the respond, I think I can grasp things a bit better now.
To clarify a bit, what I said was it is much harder for Swordsmen branches to deal its maximum damage compare to the other 2 DPS branches. Archers mostly need timing and positioning, while wizards areā¦well, I donāt even need to say it.
Yes, even if all the condition are met, it is still low. I have not have the opportunity to test it late games, Iāve just been a comparison test subject for them and watched some videos, and with just that I can tell that theyāre screwed if they want to be a pure DPS.
Since itās so difficult, most swordsmen players opt for a circle in Pel, hoping it would make it easier for them to find a party and do dungeons to level up. I love that personally, it adds so much utility to a party, and other DPS can function so much better with a tank, healers have to focus only on 1 character.
But, itās still unfair to opt out a path for swordsmen to be a decent DPS character, seeing how Archers and Wizard can be CC support too with Cryomancer and Hunter (Iām trying to build 1 now, in hope petās AI will get better). I want to say that the only thing all 3 canāt do is healing butā¦Feather Footā¦soā¦
The only thing you guys can do is hope that this will get better with upcoming new circles, new jobs.
This reply is equivalent to someone who got caught betting and told everyone their brother did it. Plz stfu, youāre making yourself look worse.
Yep the only reason that any particular dungeon doesnāt get full runs, and people only rush, is due to lack of decent xp. If all dungeons gave good xp, you would see low queue times on all of them
Doppel C2 skills are pretty bad. The only saving grace they have is their cyclone being able to have 10 points.
zornhau, zucken, and redel are GREAT skills but they have no overheat and their cooldown are long. Compare that to a musketeer skillset and you can clearly see a HUGE difference in damage.
Plus we gotta be up close. IMC has been great at adresssing bots and performance, RMT and market/trading, etc but they really, really suck at class balance. Like really suck. I donāt think they know what theyāre doingā¦at ALL. Iām also sure the entire staff of IMC only plays wizards and archers too.
Thatāsā¦ surprisingly adequate. Kudos, sir.
If only IMC staff read thier own forums 
A numbers buff for Swordsmen will be at most a bandaid. Making Swordsmen competitive in the PvE endgame that IMC has designed requires a complete overhaul of melee combat and PvE encounter design.
Melee combat as it stands right now is unfairly punishing because:
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Almost every form of CC used by monsters and bosses is melee-ranged.
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Quite a few bosses constantly charge out of melee range with every other skill use (looking at you, Dullahan), halving damage uptime (or more) for most melee.
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Melee classes are the least mobile damage-dealers in the game, not because they canāt move quickly, but because their skills require them to stay close to the enemy OR have long animations.
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Melee skills do not auto-target. This is especially egregious because NPC sprite/hitbox coding in this game is so horrendous that even perfectly-aimed melee skills can miss. You can have amazingly precise gameplay and positioning, and still not hit your target.
Melee DPS classes are not viable/competitive in the current PvE endgame (Earth Tower) because:
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Most melee classes lack the mindless, large-radius fire-and-forget AOEs that competitive ranged builds bring to the table. Thatās right, IMC has designed its PvE endgame to reward players using the most mechanically brainless skills in the game.
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Most melee classes also lack the absurd damage scaling that is required to deal with the massive numbers of high-health monsters that populate the Earth Tower within the time limits given. This combined with the above point means that as far as damage is concerned, melee classes are both less effective AND less efficient.
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All very true. Not only are they the weakest dps they are near impossible to use in current game design.
Its hard for some mages and archers to understand, but even if swordsmen had 300% 3500 attack moves like cannoner and musketeer, they would still do wayyyyy less damage overall.
Yep, about the response I expected >.>