Tree of Savior Forum

Where is the balance on rebuild?

#1

So we suppoust to get a balance by the rebuild in terms of pvp and other plenty things.
Me question is Did u really think is balanced that a linker just need to trow 1 skill from invi them didnt care if he die or not he gonna kill all the time? THAT IS BALANCED FOR U?

#3

If they cared about balance in PVP they would’ve made sure that at least the majority of build options is viable in both PVP and PVE content.

As it stands right now, few Classes with uber skills can destroy you in PVP while others are basically helpless.
Not even the general damage taken is balanced as e.g. Clerics on average have way less damage skills to kill someone in PVP than Non-Clerics and still deal the same low damage as other Classes that have twice or 3 times the skills.

As players are in general not as stupid as monsters and a lot of Classes move way too often, there is no way that less skills that can miss are actually balanced against more skills to use in your repertoire, as the chance to get a hit in increases with the total amount of skills available (as block and evasion are capped at 50% chance).

On top of that, there is not even a balance towards automatic targeting (e.g. the majority of Archer and Scout skills & their ranged missile-type auto-attacks) that is only reducible in damage by passive stats but cannot be evaded by moving/jumping (unless you move out of the target range),
which puts characters that need to actively aim at a huge disadvantage in PVP as their skills can miss if the aim is off or their evasion is high enough.

Last but not least, there is the undeniable unfairness of riding Classes that can attack you to stop you from chasing them (as all non-Swordsmen will have their sprint interrupted when being hit), allowing them to hit&run till you die, which is especially bitter in the case of Schwarzer Reiter who doesn’t even need to aim to deal continuous damage with pistol autoattacks.

You cannot expect any fair PVP if you’re at a disadvantage from the beginning till the end, be it through cc, status ailment, automatic targeting, attack range, number of attack skills,etc.

There’s just too much in PVP that was not considered for balancing at all, and the PVP players with the top PVP Classes in their builds don’t give anything about a fair environment that would take away their advantages.

1 Like
#4

PvP (at least TBL) is like 1000% better now than preREBuild, is really hard to oneshoot someone, te only real DPS that concern me is Inqui, the damage is too high and the area too big (not as big as Omni but big), and has good survavility with PD and priest.

Archer are not existing in real matches, IMC just took away almost all survivability options archers has and put it in scout tree (except for QS but is not too good)

Linker is OP only on the beginning when the other team don’t have good gear or bring a pet or summons like zombis in TBL (seriously don’t bring pets unless you are a mounted class), then with PDs and Cryos everywhere Linker is useless and a disanvantage when the other side have a Cryo (Joint pelaty count as melee hit so you freeze with cryo shield, same with electric shock but worst because the reflected damage just kill you), and PD is inmune to everything even joint penalty so the best thing about linkers is useless.

I’m not saying PvP is perfect (in fact is far for that) but at least you can play and have fun (not like before with inmortal clerics and sages onehooting everything offscreen)

Is impossible to balance all classes to be viable in PvE and PvP

Schwar can’t run in the pet so is really easy to catch them unless you are archer too in that case you don’t need to catch him. The only real runners are PDs with the pill.

#5

well, they said that there will be a huge update about 7 march.
Lets hope they will address most of the balance problems

#6

Is exactly as unbalance as before. Cause now u dont need the big equip to pvp now u only need to pick 1 of 4 classes to be over any other build

#7

Yeah wish it but never happend. AIming is still bug but they spended their times on making a new stupid costume box. There r problems around the game like afk farmers that havent been fixed. Cause they give a fck about it. They just want to keep u the most time possible in game to make u buy their shet. Thats why we didnt get real fixes over the problems. They preffer to take away the content insted of fixing it like we got on weekends burning event.

#8

well, 1 week for their announcement, at least something about it, i m just a bit upset because they are taking too long to make adjusts like pd mask and murmillo helmet…

Not to mention Hackapell :sad: poor thing was a burst monster on archer tree now is a weak spammer.

#9

dont expect to they do something in the near future. We r talking about a company that didnt give a fck about problems. We could have this problems for 3 or 4 months more or probably they never fix it. Like hunter Skills.

#10

To be fair the balance is much better now than before and they are hearing the feedback and adjusting things often, like the recent nerf to PD and the planned changes to CC in general

#11

Came back after seeing Re:Build.
Expected a good patch to come back, i mean look at the way they advertised it with an awesome trailer. Pretty obvious trying to revive a dying horse
Tried several classes for nostalgia and concepts that I like
Realise the game is still as buggy and lame as before.

Like cmon IMC, are you even trying? Classes like wugushi got changed, oh great. But wait, antidotes are still on 0 cooldown. Like wtf? 3 years, and you still leave that 1 single item that breaks 1 entire class. And yes I am choosing to write base on pvp standpoint, because everything can be use for pve if you feel like it, even alchemist.

As much as i love this game’s aesthetic, music and Maggi’s artwork, the way IMC does things pisses me off more than anything. 3 days into installing Re:build I already feel like Re:uninstall :roll_eyes:

#12

Been playing for 1 month after leaving for 8 months.
Every Top PvP Archer that played GvG/TBL with/against me just rerolled Scout, it’s sad.

I’m too stubborn to get into this bandwagon. But Jesus, everytime I go to the drawing board to find builds that can exploit any hole in the meta I hit the same dead ends.

Not only archers got gutted with the split of classes that created the Scout branch, but the current offenders in PvP attack from so many broken angles that it’s almost (?) impossible to brew something effective.

You need high armor and/or plate set bonus to survive Scout opening burst, but you also need to get tanky to not get randomly farmed from magic AoE’s that werent targeted at you. You can’t cover both bases with any archer class or even entire archer builds. The worst part is that is exactly how the core game is designed right now, because that’s a problem faced by every class that doesnt bring broad survivability tools to the table.

Scouts get the privilege of picking fights, avoiding bad battles, predating weakened targets, or at least opening when timed defenses are expiring. Also, iFrames tacked on damage skills combined with better dots.

Clerics heal (obvious point, but next patch may bring this advantage down), get debuff immunity, lesser damage absorbtion, death insurances and even run like no scout/archer when drugged.

Swordsman set the bar of whats tanky, and set WAY HIGHER than it should be (tankiness is their niche, but IMC extrapolated). Try calculating your damage against properly built swordsmans, accounting for 90k+ defenses, multiple % damage reductions and block - plus multiple ways to shrug timely CC’s)

Wizards are walking over a thin line right now, because they rely on CCs that will be nerfred, and the most broken mitigation buff for PvP right now. But, if IMC shoots down just two classes (Cryo and Onmyoji), wizards will get benched, making company to archers. But CC is already unreliable to the point that the incoming Cryo nerfs won’t be as meaningful as a Genbu Armor nerf.

As you can see it’s not even fault of the archer branch. The problem is that the entire metagame is (and was, as far as I can remember) built on a “Break the game or GTFO” motto. Even non-archer classes suffer from this syndome.

There’s way too much mandatory circles right now. (and being left out of this circlejerk is even worse - see archers.)

#13

Second problem;

This one is present since the genesis of ToS: the entire buff/debuff system is awful.

Most godlike defenses that break the game come in the form of buffs. You either play a class graced with meaningfull buffs, or your survivability will pale in comparison with other players. Those buffs are way stronger than buffs of lesser impact, or are just plain and simple unique to specific classes. Either:

  • Decrease duration for said buffs;
  • Decrease defensive buffs values/level or create innovative flaws
  • Create more dispel effects (Sheriff’s Aimed Shot is a strong case, i hope it sets a trend)

On the other end, debuffs and debuff immunity are poorly handled by IMC. You’re either immune or hopeless, no middle ground. The immune route was a response to the long CC durations, but also caused collateral damage, collapsing entire classes by negating damage skills that rely on debuffs. Againt, it’s binary, you either bring level 2 (or 3, preferably) debuffs, or your class is unreliable.

Add to this paradigm the way IMC codes their skills: if they don’t know how to program a random skill, they just code it as a buff or debuff. See Divine Arrow: half of the skill damage is negated by Prophecy. I bet that wasnt intended, as it would be just fine tuning, it’s probably just collateral damage from this buff/debuff paradigm.

Either:

  • Code damage skills to get through CC immunity (just raising debuff level works) - thats a lazy and imperfect approach;
  • Keep the same levels, but shift the emphasis on immunities to cleanse skills (hell, even a solution as old as World of Warcraft PvP Trinket would work better)
  • Shift immunity to % duration reduction, to impact both CC’s and DoT’s that area meant to damage bosses (but recode some skills)

Any approach is better than no approach at all, IMC.

#14

I can’t understand how IMC just refuses to nerf the obvious unbalanced thing for so many time, just now they nerf the CC duration of some classes, but just the CC duration, not the Buff like Hard shield that last the entire round making swordmans unkillable, or Murm helmet that resist 50% of debuff (archers crying for this) with 100% up time,
lancer are even worst with the 70% status resist for 30 secs and the damage is just too much, I have 135k HP 30k Pdef and can kill me in one easy knockdown because of the fake range of the spear atks (with the Atk range +5 in wastrel/asio spears you think are far from them but nop).
Genbu armor, when you use all your CDs to break it they just use a blue pot and have the same armor again with enough SP to survive almost anything because the CD are shorter than the duration of the skill. (WTF)

At least is my hope that Sheriff can delete all that OP buff (Hard shield, initiate, Revive, Healing factor, modafinil, Cryo shield, genbu armor, Reincarnate and more),
Sadly for the archers looks like they are going to be the same for a long time.

1 Like
#15

Looks like archer’s QQing thread.

#16

where did they post the changes to CC?
what are the changes they plan to do?

#17

I hope they can see the same trend, too.

Archer QQ is 75% of my reasoning, indeed, but my point about buffs and debuffs goes beyond classes

#18

Ice bolt Freeze duration is reduced by 50% in PVP ( Team Battle League tournaments , Crystal Mine Shootout , Colonies , and Slevinasrea (Boruta )) .

Freeze duration is reduced by 50% in PVP ( Team Battle League tournaments , Crystal Mine Shootout , Colonies , and Slevinasrea ( Boruta )) .

Ice wall Freeze duration is reduced by 50% in PVP ( Team Battle League tournaments , Crystal Mine Shootout , Colonies , and Slevinasrea (Boruta )) .

Icewall duration is reduced by 50% in PVP ( Team Battle League tournaments , Crystal mine contest , Colonies , and Slibinasrea (Boruta )) .

Sub-zero shield The subzero shield’s freezing and damage reflection conditions are changed .

  • Close physical attack property → All attacks

※ However , the character’s attack is limited to the skill used by the character .

  • Protective distance : Infinite → 50

Freeze duration is reduced by 50% in PVP ( Team Battle League tournaments , Crystal Mine Shootout , Colonies , and Slevinasrea (Boruta )) .

There is a 50% chance of freezing in the PVP ( team battle league tournaments , mine contest , Colonies, Slibinasrea ( Boruta )) area .

Frostpila Freeze duration is reduced by 50% in PVP ( Team Battle League tournaments , Crystal Mine Shootout , Colonies , and Slevinasrea (Boruta )) .

Nerfs to other classes CC skills:

  • Silence from Assassin Behead (50% duration)
  • Stun from Rogue Backstab (50% duration)
  • Stun from Pied Piper Dissonanz (50% duration)
  • Darkness inducing skills from Shadowmancer now share diminishing returns
  • Matador Corrida Finale knockback distance halved
#19

And the skills with Invul frames have a 5 seg CD between invul frames X_x

#20