Tree of Savior Forum

Guide to Fencer / Doppel / Bullet Marker [PVE]

Is it REALLY necessary to have +5 seconds on PB? Cause the only thing that changes from lv 10 to 15 is that.
Wouldn’t it be best to have 15 gung ho 15 conc?

Edit: the reason I go SW3 is Double Slash too, if not I would go HL3

One that doesn’t require some stupid overbotted lowlevel drop.

Wouldn’t DOV15 + Punish1 be still better overall, though?
Punish15 deals 869% damage.
Punish1 does 491%, with DOVs bonus it’d be 491*1.33 = 653%. While that is still slightly worse, DOV also improves every other skill you have.

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Exactly, I’m sick of Battle Bracelets. It’s a bit better right now but still. We need something new that doesn’t require a rare 40 bracelets that have no business being as rare as they are right now.

I’m done my last reset and I’m going to sit on it for sometime, maybe even until we hear about rank 9 but might not. Can’t think of anything better than SW3->HL2->Fencer3 right now but you never know.

When you’re not holding aggro it is actually fairly easy to stick to the areas around the boss where their knockback attacks can’t hit you, or worst case scenario, you have plenty of time to just run out of the way.

So yes, I agree, level 15 PB + Attribute is honestly kind of overkill when you could have more damage from getting both conc/gung ho at 15.

I left it at 7 in my final build and I havent gotten knocked back by anything significant so far if I just time it right. (Granted, I have pistol shot to hit from a range if my PB really isn’t up for a big knockback 360 aoe)

This is especially true for any would be doppel2/3s out there that have highlander + sw3; Cross Guard prevents knockback outright on blocks, and it’s spammable.

Hard to say; Punish levels also increase the Earthquake attribute damage, so your AoE nuke potential becomes pretty insane, which DOV15 wouldn’t help as much with.

I thought earlier you mentioned that EQ attribute just have its own skill factor? Or is that a modifier on top of Punish’s own skill factor? (the ~121%)

EDIT: Nvm saw your change when looking through the thread just now.
Still don’t think full 15 is worth it, even for AoE nuking there’s probably some middle ground between DOV and Punish to get the most out of things.

Apparently it was sheer luck that the mobs I was testing on combined with a lv1 punish just HAPPENED to match my attack / their defense.

The world works in strange ways. So yeah, rectified that, back to square one with how it’s actually calculated LEL.

Actually, just a thought.

Since EQ seems to be treated as another attack altogether, AND it’s based on Punish’s damage, would it double dip from DOV? Once on Punish’s gain and once again on its own calculation?

Considering Earthquake’s damage is higher when Punish’s base hit lands as a critical hit, and then those higher hits can crit on their own, I’d say yes, it probably does.

What I find truly interesting is enemies on the outer edge of the EQ (that didn’t take punish damage because the initial hit’s aoe is rather small) still get calculated entirely as if punish’s initial hit DID hit them. I mean, in a way it makes sense, else mobs out of punish’s initial hit range would just take 0 damage, but the game is running a needlessly high amount of calculations doing that…

I don’t have a barb in that video.

It usually hits 4 times if the monsters are closer to each other from what I can tell.

At lvl 1 punish while doing full 290 dungeon runs, my highest damage with punish-earthquake was 20k x4, which basically makes it about as strong as zornhau with attribute.

I have about 2200-2900 patk for reference, that 20k per hit for punish-earthquake was with lvl 15 DoV as well. Have yet to test my fully buffed damage (frenzy + warcry)

I updated my post where I mentioned that since it was really just sheer luck that it all turned out so cleanly. Raising the skill level, going to completely different mobs or raising my own attack completely destroyed that theory.

The only thing we know right now (or well, think we know) :

  • Hit count = Enemies hit by initial punish x 2 (with a possible cap; ie 4 mobs = 8 eq hits. This part’s entirely consistent.)
  • Damage = Based on initial punish hit in some way, even if the mob was only hit by eq damage and not the initial punish hit.

For my final build I went Hl3. I played an entire week with this build so I got used to the lower Pain Barrier. I don’t see any reason why I should max it - normal monsters only stagger with auto attacks and most of them have no push back or knock down anymore. For Elites I’ve only encountered Vilkas Fighter yet. I’m aware that Pain Barrier is now even better vs Bosses but IMC announced in their last Combat Change Post that they want to reduce Knock Downs (the post was relating to field bosses but I assume this will be a more general change). I also think I shouldn’t face tank bosses all the time.

I also dislike double slash… even with 200 Dex it’s incredible slow. The Damage is OK but Vertical Slash is stronger and has potential to do way more. Not to mention that with Hl2 I have 5 skill points wasted - I neither use Wagon Wheel nor Cartar Stroke.

is there an attribute to do this? i got Punish 1 but works only like 3 mobs knocked. Only 1 line of damage :open_mouth: @EternalDream

It’s the C3 attribute, “Earthquake”. Punish is really bad without it haha.

ooopps I get it now yeah. I’m only 1Circle Doppel I guess I’ll ditch punish then. THanks!

trying pelt3 hop1 dop3

max punish and dov seem crazy

The skill factor is really, REALLY, important Sayurichan, and that applies not just to Swordsman, but any other class. Deeds of Valor surely boosts other skills and for only world bossing, it would be best. But Punish 15, allows you to clean rather fast 30F-35F with 1 blow. Also Punish 15 has more than 1000% factor with attributes. And i haven’t reached AoE attack ratio cap, this means, if i manage to knock down 6+ medium mobs, i’d hit 10 or more lines of damage.
I’m going to stay with Punish 15 until i get my solmiki set, then i’m gonna reset to DoV 15 and Redel/Zucken 10 for bossing.

Why not take a middle ground, 8 DOV (enough duration to have 100% uptime) and 7 Punish?

If Punish’s earthquake indeed double dip from DOV, the result might be just about the same as with 15 Punish, but now you also get some extra damage on your other skills.

I will make a correction to all that cry I made about Fencer’s changes and such, also maybe clarifying some issues Fencers out there may still have.

  • Critical is still possible, but you will need some equipment for it. Gems + your definitive weapon is a good start.
  • Epee Garde nerf was needed, because I am dealing more damage than before, with the same equipment.
  • Considering a critical chance of at least 40~50%, DEX Fencer with practonium rapier>>>STR Fencer with practonium rapier.
  • …But if you use a Lolopanther/Solmiki, STR wins.
  • …But it is fun to play a speedy Fencer as well.
  • Double Balestra Fente is actually a nice move for PVP.
  • HG315 rapiers are pretty cheap as of this date, at least in Silute. A Migantis was 50k.
  • We are still more fabulous than Doppels.

You want the % damage (33) from DoV more than its duration. Punish is great just for AoE killing, once you’re done with Solmiki, having punish 1 is enough to kill field mobs for 315 mats or w/e you want to farm. Thing is that you need dps for kill checks on Solmiki, specially 31F and 36F (if you’re going for Solmiki weapons) and Punish 15 does a great job there. Other than that, Punish lvl 1 is okay for general pve dailies. I’m really wondering what’s the cap for Earthquake attribute. Having maxed AoEar is what im trying to get.

Edit: Also bosses are not a problem on Solmiki, the nerf was real on ET and sometimes DPS check floors are harder than the bosses itself.

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